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  Reply # 1955526 12-Feb-2018 09:45
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kingdragonfly: Just to be clear, when I started this thread, my intended primary audience was the police, and "of interest" to the laymen, who may have suggested it to the police, or even donated equipment.

I was hoping perhaps some off-duty police officers would read this thread, and perhaps use the US idea of actively catching criminals instead of reacting to crimes.

The police uses of "bait packages" are similar to the use of "bait-bikes" and "bait-cars." It's done by law-enforcement professional, knowing that even catching a criminal on a "bait-bike" is dangerous for everyone.

I can understand everyone's frustration at property crime, in particular the mom-and-pop businesses robberies.

I know what I think should be done about crime, as I'm sure everyone has their own ideas.

But this thread has rapidly devolved.

 

I don't think you understand how policing works. Off duty police on GZ are exceptionally unlikely to be able to single handedly change an approach to policing. The decision makers who decide how these things are managed are likely to be aware of this, or reports and white papers and research and will balance budgets, with numbers of police and then work out the most effective way to police. 

 

In summary, I think GZ as good as it is, isn't a good place to be posting if you want to affect the policing style of NZ. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1955533 12-Feb-2018 09:57
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cruxis:

 

The show your talking about was called "Busted" 

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3051077

 

The police were not happy about the show either "Detective Senior Sergeant Stu Allsopp-Smith, who was head of Auckland's car squad during last May's incident, said leaving a vehicle with a window down and keys inside could entice normally law-abiding people into committing a crime."

 

Police were contemplating charging them for leaving keys and money visible in cars as it was encouraging crime. But under advice could not make it stick, Almost like victim blaming.

 

 

I'm a "normally law-abiding" person and if I came across a car with the window down and keys inside it wouldn't make me commit a crime.


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  Reply # 1955537 12-Feb-2018 10:07
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Same.  Just craziness from the police making such a suggestion.

 

 


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  Reply # 1955539 12-Feb-2018 10:10
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There are certainly opportunistic types who would not normally break into a car to steal it, but might find one waiting with keys in it hard to resist.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1955551 12-Feb-2018 10:11
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Rikkitic:

 

There are certainly opportunistic types who would not normally break into a car to steal it, but might find one waiting with keys in it hard to resist.

 

 

 

 

They wouldn't fit into "law abiding citizens" by any definition I subscribe to.

 

 


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  Reply # 1955552 12-Feb-2018 10:12
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Journeyman:

 

In my mind, it's having a laugh. People could respond in kind but some here take things a little too seriously.

 

 

Bang bang shoot shoot. Big laugh.

 

 





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  Reply # 1955558 12-Feb-2018 10:18
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I actually remember a time when you could leave your car with the engine running while you popped into a shop for a few minutes.

 

 





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  Reply # 1955658 12-Feb-2018 12:42
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I think storing poison in a food/drink container is illegal, let along deliberate poisoning or man traps.

 

We were burgled earlier this year and one the item stolen was a glass sauce bottle of a concentrated fungicide.  I wouldn't ordinarily store pesticide in a bottle like that. But, I got it from a friend who buys it 20L at a time and the burglary happened to occur a couple of days later.

 

I assume it was grabbed in haste because it doesn't look valuable and the lid was sealed with duct-taped.  Also, the thieves otherwise avoided items made for doing work.





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  Reply # 1955659 12-Feb-2018 12:43
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Rikkitic:

 

I actually remember a time when you could leave your car with the engine running while you popped into a shop for a few minutes.

 

 

If you have the correct dog you still can.





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  Reply # 1955664 12-Feb-2018 12:51
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MikeAqua:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I actually remember a time when you could leave your car with the engine running while you popped into a shop for a few minutes.

 

 

If you have the correct dog you still can.

 

 

Heh, my wife goes walking at night with our german shepherd and has never been bothered.


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  Reply # 1955689 12-Feb-2018 13:12
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JimmyH:

 

I think a multi-pronged solution is needed, which could include:

 

  • better security in shops, including HD security camera and publishing pictures in newspapers (even when the offenders are young)
  • more law enforcement targeted at burglaries, especially aggravated burglaries, found by diverting resources away from pursuing essentially victimless crimes (like cannabis and minor speeding infringements)
  • possibly some stings - tracking devices placed in dummy cigarette packets in frequently burgled shops etc
  • tougher sentencing, including minimum sentences for burglary and aggravated burglary, and not letting youths off with a wet bus ticket slapping
  • and (contraversially) cutting tobacco taxes - prices are well past the point where most people who will quit because of price have already done so, and jacking them up higher is principally squeezing families of limited means (ie the children miss out where the parents keep smoking) and stoking crime.

 

Interesting ..... gave me the idea to group several other suggestions together.

 

1.Ban sales of tobacco altogether. This prevents any new addicts from developing

 

2. Existing addicts must register and be treated as a health problem. Like the methadone program, the users are issued with tobacco. But they're only issued enough to use, we don't want them selling it to would be users.

 

3. Addicts get intensive therapy to kick the habit.

 

 

 

Under such a scheme the families don't suffer from the financial cost of having an addict in the house - kids can eat instead of mum smoking.

 

Tobacco is not for sale so there's no robberies.

 

Addicts don't need to buy it anyway, they get theirs from the Dr.

 

 

 

I know such a scheme will have deniers who think smokers just suffer from a lack of moral fibre and 'should just give up'.

 

 


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  Reply # 1955696 12-Feb-2018 13:37
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elpenguino:

 

I know such a scheme will have deniers who think smokers just suffer from a lack of moral fibre and 'should just give up'.

 

 

I don't have an answer but I don't think this is it.

 

This thread has gone way off course. It started as a question about using bait traps to snare thieves. Now it is about violent dairy robberies to obtain tobacco.

 

Robberies anger me, as they do most people. I do not believe arming shopkeepers can solve the problem or even help improve it. All it does is lead to more escalation. Things like fog cannons might help in the short term, but the real answer has to lie in teaching young people that other people's stuff is not theirs for the taking. This is a long-term process. In the meantime, neighbourhood support can make a difference. A loud alarm, and people nearby prepared to show up when they hear it, can act as a pretty good disincentive. Thieves are cowards. They don't want witnesses.

 

 





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  Reply # 1955774 12-Feb-2018 14:46
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I don't agree with robberies and I feel sorry for the victims.  But ... there is no compulsion to sell tobacco products.

 

It's now abundantly clear that serious security measures should be installed if you sell tobacco products in a small business staffed by one or two people.

 

In many countries the staff, along with all the high value merchandise and cash would be in a cashiers cage and there would be a time-lock safe for the cash.  Any door into an adjoining residence should be secure and kept locked. 

 

Go to to BP or Z after about 9:30pm - the shop door is locked and all business is done via a cashiers window.  PITA and no doubts costs those businesses revenue, but it's safe.

 

I think line of sight into dairies needs to be addressed as well.  You could easily walk past a dairy being robbed and not see what was happening.  Many have their windows painted over to the extent that no-one can see in, and or a layout with the cashier's position obscured from passers-by with shelving.  

 

All the above mentioned security measures are expensive of course, but maybe that's just the cost of selling tobacco in that particular business model. 

 

 





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  Reply # 1956075 13-Feb-2018 00:12
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If you don't want your alcohol stolen do the opposite to Cruxis.  Put your vodka into an empty bottle of meths and add some purple colouring.  An added bonus is that, at parties, no matter how many times you offer, no one wants a drink of your vodka.


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  Reply # 1956650 13-Feb-2018 21:47
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MikeAqua:

 

I don't agree with robberies and I feel sorry for the victims.  But ... there is no compulsion to sell tobacco products.

 

 

No, but so what? There is no compulsion for a jeweler to sell diamonds, but would you qualify an expressuin of sympathy for a violently robbed jeweler with an inference that it's somehow their fault for having a "wrong" business, or that they should give up their business in response to being robbed? What about a liquor store owner - there is no "compulsion" to sell alcohol.

 

In my view, retailers going about their lawful business are being aggressively and violently robbed, and as such they are deserving of the protection of the law. Equally. All of them. Not just those with businesses you may or may not morally approve of.

 

Coming back on topic, I would have no problem using bait tactics to catch thieves. Personally, I would feel no compulsion to seal a car just because it was unlocked with the keys in, or similar, and I doubt that such tactics somehow convert law abiding people into crooks. I have no issues with using those tactics to catch them.

 

 


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