Jury Duty

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Reply # 1956295 13-Feb-2018 12:27

matabo:

I was:"challenged " just as my name was called , wouldn't have a clue what the reason was......... rather pleased, it was going to be a 2 day plus trial.

You probably didn't fit the "look" that the lawyer wanted in order to try and win their case. IIRC each side can challenge a certain number of jurors without providing a reason.

networkn

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Reply # 1956299 13-Feb-2018 12:39

kryptonjohn:

matabo:

I was:"challenged " just as my name was called , wouldn't have a clue what the reason was......... rather pleased, it was going to be a 2 day plus trial.

Maybe it was the "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" tee shirt?

or "guilty your honor!"

matabo

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Reply # 1956302 13-Feb-2018 12:49

networkn:

kryptonjohn:

matabo:

I was:"challenged " just as my name was called , wouldn't have a clue what the reason was......... rather pleased, it was going to be a 2 day plus trial.

Maybe it was the "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" tee shirt?

or "guilty your honor!"

nah, you are both wrong I was bare-chested.

MaxLV

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Reply # 1956305 13-Feb-2018 12:51

mattwnz:

Does anyone know the date they started getting really hard on letting people off or deferring?

When they found a large % of potential jurors when not turning up for selection, without even requesting a deferral or exemption from jury service.
I seem to remember, they even charged some of those that failed to turn up, and some were convicted and fined...

I have served on jury service regularly and am quite happy to do so. There was only one time I requested an exemption, when I had planned a holiday when I was supposed to serve on the jury. A letter from my employer at the time was enough to get the exemption.

All other times I've turned up for the selection process, and been selected every time.

I was exempted for 10 years by one judge, as the jury I was serving on for one week was for a horrific murder trial, and the judge excused all 12 of us from any further jury service for 10 years, even though we couldn't reach a verdict in the case.

At the end of the 10 years (and 2 months) I got another summons, and was selected for a jury.

Usually once you have served on a jury, you're exempt for the next 2 years, however I got another 4 summons in the next 12 months, each time I wrote to the court with evidence of the previous jury service, and they exempted me each time, even though I told them I was quite happy to be selected for jury service again. When I asked why I had been selected, they said it's a random selection of people from the electoral roll, and no checks are made to see if any of the people have had previous jury service in the last two years.

MaxLV

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Reply # 1956316 13-Feb-2018 13:03

MikeAqua:

My employment agreement is silent on the matter of payment for jury service. My employer could choose not to pay me.

I would be OK for a week or two but it would still hurt. After that things would get very tight.

I don't see why people should have to reduce their equity for jury service, or use up their annual leave, all for the privilege of sitting on an uncomfortable chair and listening to suits drone on for hours. Or worse being traumatised by photos of some hideous crime scene or details or some hideous act. IMO jury service is as out of date as compulsory military service

If we must have juries (I don't favour the system personally), the govt should pay people for their lost income. Not employers, the govt.

One of my previous employers (a government department) did pay me when I was on jury service, but I had to give them the jury allowance I received.

My last employer, paid me as usual while being on jury service, and I was allowed to keep the jury service allowance as well. That was because it was written into my employment contract as negotiated by the union I was a member of.

I didn't need to use any annual leave, or any other of my paid leave.

MaxLV

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Reply # 1956320 13-Feb-2018 13:21

kryptonjohn:

Rikkitic:

dejadeadnz:

Hardly. Plenty of liberal, democratic countries with excellent record of human rights do not have right of trial by juries. Just look at most of continental Europe.

If the concern is for the getting to the truth and conclusions being reached through a careful and thorough examination of the evidence with as little reference to human prejudices as possible, why anyone would prefer a panel of jurors -- some of whom could be terribly uneducated and stupid -- as opposed to a panel of judges, is beyond me. The panel of judges would have (at a minimum) completed a tertiary degree and will be required to issue a written decision which will be closely examined for their statement of and application of the law and examination of evidence. This is opposed to a bunch of unaccountable jurors being able to just call out someone as guilty or not guilty without having to give any reasons.

As an older person I have never been called up for jury duty, though I would have no objection to serving. I do not believe in the jury system, though. I come from one of those European countries that do not have juries at all and in my opinion it is a vastly superior system. When juries can be filled with religious fanatics and conspiracy theory nuts and all flavours of imbecility in-between, just give me a panel of professional judges any day.

You only have to look at the Bain trial to see that the jury system is deeply, deeply flawed.

They can be...

The murder trial I was on jury service for, the legal argument was that we had to decide if the accused was insane or not at the exact moment he committed the murder. The prosecution argued he wasn't, and the defence argued he was, with both sides providing 'experts' to back up their case. I still dont understand how they'd expect 12 ordinary people to reach such a decision. We couldn't reach a decision because all of us didn't believe we were qualified to make such a decision about a person's mental state at the exact time he committed murder. He was retried six months later, and was found not guilty on the grounds of insanity by a judge only trial.

BTW we had to look at graphic autopsy photos (in colour) to see how the victim was killed. It's nothing like what the so called crime shows on TV are like. After we had looked at the photos, the judge made us take a 15 break, to get over the shock of seeing the photos.

MikeAqua

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Reply # 1956342 13-Feb-2018 13:56

MaxLV:

BTW we had to look at graphic autopsy photos (in colour) to see how the victim was killed. It's nothing like what the so called crime shows on TV are like. After we had looked at the photos, the judge made us take a 15 break, to get over the shock of seeing the photos.

And that is one of my major bugbears with a jury trial. I don't want to see that ever. You can't un-see that kind of thing. A couple of nasty accidents I have seen years ago still bother me.

I simply would not look at it.

Mike

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Reply # 1956344 13-Feb-2018 14:02

Last time I was called for jury service I missed out barely on being picked for a particularly icky high court case involving child molestation, I was drawn for the short list, but not for the actual jury.

We had our brand new CIO get called up for Jury service a few weeks after he started in the job, poor sucker got stuck on a six week murder trial, then caught some plague from being in a tiny jury room for too long and spent another couple of weeks wiped out by that. Not an auspicious beginning in a role (it got worse from there).

MikeB4

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Reply # 1956351 13-Feb-2018 14:16

MaxLV:

One of my previous employers (a government department) did pay me when I was on jury service, but I had to give them the jury allowance I received.

My last employer, paid me as usual while being on jury service, and I was allowed to keep the jury service allowance as well. That was because it was written into my employment contract as negotiated by the union I was a member of.

I didn't need to use any annual leave, or any other of my paid leave.

In theory I was supposed to ask for the Jury allowance in two Government departments but had the discretion to waive it. I decided the latter and let my staff keep it.

Mike
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MurrayM

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Reply # 1956384 13-Feb-2018 15:06

matabo:

I was:"challenged " just as my name was called , wouldn't have a clue what the reason was......... rather pleased, it was going to be a 2 day plus trial.

That happened to me too. I think it was because I lived in the same suburb as where the crime was committed (they gave us a few details like that before the jury was selected).

Geektastic

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Reply # 1956403 13-Feb-2018 15:52

Geektastic:

So what happens if you are the only employee in your business?

Does anyone know?

networkn

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Reply # 1956408 13-Feb-2018 15:57

Geektastic:

Geektastic:

So what happens if you are the only employee in your business?

Does anyone know?

You write in and get waived.

Geektastic

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Reply # 1956431 13-Feb-2018 16:19

networkn:

Geektastic:

Geektastic:

So what happens if you are the only employee in your business?

Does anyone know?

You write in and get waived.

Oh, ok. There is not a single mention of that circumstance on the website etc that I could find.

kryptonjohn

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Reply # 1956432 13-Feb-2018 16:19

Geektastic:

Geektastic:

So what happens if you are the only employee in your business?

Does anyone know?

I.e. self employed, whether it be as a company or sole trader. It happened to me decades ago. I wrote in explaining my self employment, claimed hardship and they excused me.

bagheera

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Reply # 1956438 13-Feb-2018 16:35

networkn:

Geektastic:

Geektastic:

So what happens if you are the only employee in your business?

Does anyone know?

You write in and get waived.

you can write in and try to get it waived - got to love how MP does not have to do jury service but think money hardship not a reason not to do it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/97095141/financial-hardship-not-an-excuse-for-skipping-jury-duty-minister-says

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