Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18
17544 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5047

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1970876 7-Mar-2018 20:59
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

I agree with you on that.

 

There's a huge problem with (essentially subjective) "self assessment" used for collecting data.  It's not just that publicity / media coverage of "issues" might influence an individual's response now - rendering it inaccurate as a "snapshot", it's also that publicity / media coverage is likely to change for any number of reasons between this "snapshot" and the next - so it's not going to be possible to make any honest conclusion about any trend, any need for future action, or to measure success of any actions underway now.

 

 

I can see the point you are making, however, I think in a pool of 3 million responses, you'd expect the majority to be honest in their responses and so long as the questions weren't too intrusive and were carefully worded, you could get some indications of some things perhaps.

 

Not sure how you would position this, but potentially asking about likelyhood of trying additional children, or asking people what aged they would aim to stop work. Do you intend on purchasing a investment property? Not exactly scientific, but could give an indication on intentions. 

 

 


6942 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3609


  Reply # 1970911 7-Mar-2018 21:40
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

 

 

I can see the point you are making, however, I think in a pool of 3 million responses, you'd expect the majority to be honest in their responses and so long as the questions weren't too intrusive and were carefully worded, you could get some indications of some things perhaps.

 

Not sure how you would position this, but potentially asking about likelyhood of trying additional children, or asking people what aged they would aim to stop work. Do you intend on purchasing a investment property? Not exactly scientific, but could give an indication on intentions. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you'd expect anybody to be honest in a census.  There's no penalty for giving the "wrong" answer, and there's no way at all that they can check.

 

If you asked me a week ago whether I was interested in buying an investment property, I may have said yes, but today I read an article which may incline me to say no.

 

Not exactly scientific is an understatement.  Not at all scientific - thus worthless - is closer to the mark,


17544 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5047

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1970915 7-Mar-2018 21:53
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

I can see the point you are making, however, I think in a pool of 3 million responses, you'd expect the majority to be honest in their responses and so long as the questions weren't too intrusive and were carefully worded, you could get some indications of some things perhaps.

 

Not sure how you would position this, but potentially asking about likelyhood of trying additional children, or asking people what aged they would aim to stop work. Do you intend on purchasing a investment property? Not exactly scientific, but could give an indication on intentions. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you'd expect anybody to be honest in a census.  There's no penalty for giving the "wrong" answer, and there's no way at all that they can check.

 

If you asked me a week ago whether I was interested in buying an investment property, I may have said yes, but today I read an article which may incline me to say no.

 

Not exactly scientific is an understatement.  Not at all scientific - thus worthless - is closer to the mark,

 

 

Most people are inherently honest.

 

It's supposed to be a point in time snapshot. At the time of the answers, if it was true, you can use it to determine what was correct at the time. Your answers are one of 3 Million. There WILL be some trends. 

 

Other than that, we will need to agree to disagree.


6942 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3609


  Reply # 1970917 7-Mar-2018 22:03
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

Most people are inherently honest.

 

 

Actually, most all people learn to be dishonest when they're still wearing diapers.

 

 


17544 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5047

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1970918 7-Mar-2018 22:04
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Most people are inherently honest.

 

 

Actually, most all people learn to be dishonest when they're still wearing diapers.

 

 

 

 

Can be dishonest is not the same as will be. 

 

 


6942 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3609


  Reply # 1970921 7-Mar-2018 22:17
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Most people are inherently honest.

 

 

Actually, most all people learn to be dishonest when they're still wearing diapers.

 

 

 

 

Can be dishonest is not the same as will be. 

 

 

 

 

So what's the deciding factor? Fear of consequence of being caught out perhaps?

 

 


17544 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5047

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1970924 7-Mar-2018 22:24
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

So what's the deciding factor? Fear of consequence of being caught out perhaps?

 

 

I can only speak for myself, and probably for my wife who I believe shares a very similar set of values. 

 

I didn't lie because: 

 

1) There was no reason to

 

2) I believe in the Census and hope accurate values might provide for future planning

 

3) I am inherently an honest person

 

I didn't fear consequences, most of the fields I might have objected to there was an option to give a non-specific answer. I gave specifics anyway.

 

I am hit up every couple of years by Stats NZ to provide VERY specific information about my business. Other than being massively time-consuming, I object to the frequency, and esp to the very detailed information I am required by law to give. There are penalties for not providing information accurately or not completing. 

 

 


11671 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3778

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1971018 8-Mar-2018 08:13
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

Fred99:


So what's the deciding factor? Fear of consequence of being caught out perhaps?



I can only speak for myself, and probably for my wife who I believe shares a very similar set of values. 


I didn't lie because: 


1) There was no reason to


2) I believe in the Census and hope accurate values might provide for future planning


3) I am inherently an honest person


I didn't fear consequences, most of the fields I might have objected to there was an option to give a non-specific answer. I gave specifics anyway.


I am hit up every couple of years by Stats NZ to provide VERY specific information about my business. Other than being massively time-consuming, I object to the frequency, and esp to the very detailed information I am required by law to give. There are penalties for not providing information accurately or not completing. 


 



Purely observation rather than any kind of science, but compared to 40 years in the UK I've seen far more of an obsession with statistics in NZ than I ever did there, at least in its intrusion into business life etc.
No idea if it's actually the case but it feels like it.





4741 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1917


  Reply # 1971024 8-Mar-2018 08:46
Send private message quote this post

nunz:

 

Gender is different to sexuality.  There is a politically noisy section of society who recognize there is a percentage of people who are neither male or female or significantly a bit of both. Extra chromosomes etc.

 

As a useless piece of information peoples sexuality etc is defined in three main parts.

 

Gender - what physical bits do you have (and some have both or chrmosomally have both)

 

Gender identification: Which gender do you feel you are - e.g. some people feel born in wrong body etc

 

Sexuality - who do you like banging your bits against.

 

 

It's all very subjective ... gender and sex are different and often confused.

 

In your list above I would replace gender with sex i.e. physically male or female.  There is a third category which is inter-sex (people born with male and female or intermediate bits).

 

I would replace gender identity with gender, which is psychological and can include a very wide range of descriptors.

 

Sexuality can include half a dozen descriptors that I know of and presumably more that I don't.





Mike

953 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 222

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1971066 8-Mar-2018 09:59
Send private message quote this post

Our teenage daughters and their generation are so aware of gender politics that even we frumps have learnt a couple of things - the first is don't assume a persons gender!  Someone who is gender fluid (if that was not included as an answer) may put one answer on the 6th and a different answer in April.  Gender/Sex/Orientation are not linked and cannot be assumed.

 

It did make us think about the wording and subsequent questions that were added based on how you answered.

 

If you answered female and are over a certain age (which I presume is 16 or 18) you were asked how many children you have given birth to.  Fairly normal set of questions...

 

What if the person filling the census is a Transgender Male (born female now male) - it is feasible that they could still have given birth to children (and may in the future) but there is no option for them to provide that information; there have been some Stuff/press articles on this recently.  Surely any Female (born female) of a child baring age could have children - why are the subsequent questions restricted to 16 or 18 years or above?  I certainly would have thought that there was a statistical knowledge to be gained from answering that truthfully regardless of age.

 

I'm not giving this example to be obtuse or suggest that it should have been on the census but if it were a paper copy, the respondent would still be able to put Male and how many children.

 

The point however is whether the question can provide sufficient statistical insight or not.  Does a question that has a 1 in 500,000 response deviation warrant being on the census as in the example above - it's unusable data and there is the possibility that given the choice some will probably answer as "prefer not to say".

 

Look forward to having this discussion again next time - it would be interesting to see what changes.

 

Incidentally, does anyone have a link to "all" the questions that were asked?





Procrastination eventually pays off.


4741 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1917


  Reply # 1971067 8-Mar-2018 10:06
Send private message quote this post

Something that is interesting to do is use an add-in to see what is running in the background on the Census website.  I did this when my partner was completing the census.

 

There are >10 links to other sites. Most seemed to be for functionality.  However, the list also includes google analytics, google ads and double click.

 

I'd be interested to know why these are being used, in particular the latter two, as there were no adds on the census site.

 

 





Mike

17544 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5047

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1971069 8-Mar-2018 10:08
Send private message quote this post

MikeAqua:

 

Something that is interesting to do is use an add-in to see what is running in the background on the Census website.  I did this when my partner was completing the census.

 

There are >10 links to other sites. Most seemed to be for functionality.  However, the list also includes google analytics, google ads and double click.

 

I'd be interested to know why these are being used, in particular the latter two, as there were no adds on the census site.

 

 

 

 

That's a really good question! Who would we approach for an official statement with that? I am not happy that potentially the information I provided was accessible in any way by anyone other than Stats NZ and those directly and immediately related to the census. 

 

 


1758 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 893


  Reply # 1971140 8-Mar-2018 12:01
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Something that is interesting to do is use an add-in to see what is running in the background on the Census website.  I did this when my partner was completing the census.

 

There are >10 links to other sites. Most seemed to be for functionality.  However, the list also includes google analytics, google ads and double click.

 

I'd be interested to know why these are being used, in particular the latter two, as there were no adds on the census site.

 

 

 

 

That's a really good question! Who would we approach for an official statement with that? I am not happy that potentially the information I provided was accessible in any way by anyone other than Stats NZ and those directly and immediately related to the census. 

 

 

 

 

NZ Legislation is very clear on what can and cannot be done with Census data, and who can view what. Just check the Act. 


4741 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1917


  Reply # 1971142 8-Mar-2018 12:05
Send private message quote this post

Pumpedd:

 

networkn:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Something that is interesting to do is use an add-in to see what is running in the background on the Census website.  I did this when my partner was completing the census.

 

There are >10 links to other sites. Most seemed to be for functionality.  However, the list also includes google analytics, google ads and double click.

 

I'd be interested to know why these are being used, in particular the latter two, as there were no adds on the census site.

 

 

 

 

That's a really good question! Who would we approach for an official statement with that? I am not happy that potentially the information I provided was accessible in any way by anyone other than Stats NZ and those directly and immediately related to the census. 

 

 

NZ Legislation is very clear on what can and cannot be done with Census data, and who can view what. Just check the Act. 

 

 

I'm familiar with the Act but it's pretty clear that overseas organisations are involved with the census website and the jurisdiction the govt has over them is questionable.





Mike

3229 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 844


  Reply # 1971167 8-Mar-2018 12:29
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

StarBlazer:

 

Incidentally, does anyone have a link to "all" the questions that were asked?

 

 

Samples of the 2018 paper forms ( and thus all the questions) can be found here,

 

http://www.englishlanguage.org.nz/sites/englishlanguage/files/kcfinder/images/2018/2018%20Census%20Individual%20Form.pdf

 

http://www.englishlanguage.org.nz/sites/englishlanguage/files/kcfinder/images/2018/2018%20Census%20Dwelling%20Form.pdf

 

 

 

 


1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Targus set sights on enterprise and consumer growth in New Zealand
Posted 13-Aug-2018 13:47


Huawei to distribute nova 3i in New Zealand
Posted 9-Aug-2018 16:23


Home robot Vector to be available in New Zealand stores
Posted 9-Aug-2018 14:47


Panasonic announces new 2018 OLED TV line up
Posted 7-Aug-2018 16:38


Kordia completes first live 4K TV broadcast
Posted 1-Aug-2018 13:00


Schools get safer and smarter internet with Managed Network Upgrade
Posted 30-Jul-2018 20:01


DNC wants a safer .nz in the coming year
Posted 26-Jul-2018 16:08


Auldhouse becomes an AWS Authorised Training Delivery Partner in New Zealand
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:55


Rakuten Kobo launches Kobo Clara HD entry level reader
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:44


Kiwi team reaches semi-finals at the Microsoft Imagine Cup
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:38


KidsCan App to Help Kiwi Children in Need
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:32


FUJIFILM announces new high-performance lenses
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:57


New FUJIFILM XF10 introduces square mode for Instagram sharing
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:44


OPPO brings advanced technology to the smartphone market with new device
Posted 24-Jul-2018 09:20


Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service
Posted 20-Jul-2018 11:29



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.