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Devastation by stupidity
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  #1992362 9-Apr-2018 20:49
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I guess you don't need creative people, or those who think outside the box, or innovators, or those who question the way things are done and ask if there is not something  better. Just safe, predictable family values cogs who will never disrupt the machine. I guess that works for some. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1992396 9-Apr-2018 21:05
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Rikkitic:

I guess you don't need creative people, or those who think outside the box, or innovators, or those who question the way things are done and ask if there is not something  better. Just safe, predictable family values cogs who will never disrupt the machine. I guess that works for some. 


 



Gee, did you infer all that from DaveB's post? Or did it hit a nerve? As far as I could tell there was no commentary on creativity or innovation. Or people's ability to question their place. Just his opinion on whether people with families had a more selfless approach to their job.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

 
 
 
 


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  #1992398 9-Apr-2018 21:06
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DaveB:

 

darylblake:

 

34 / Single father of 2 here. 

Glad I had them. Love them to bits. Don't judge people who choose not to have them. Children are not for everyone

 

 

You make an interesting point. But I do judge.

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

 

 

Pretty tricky to find out those things in a job interview. You can't generally ask about family, marital status etc. 


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  #1992443 9-Apr-2018 23:42
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DaveB:

 

darylblake:

 

34 / Single father of 2 here. 

Glad I had them. Love them to bits. Don't judge people who choose not to have them. Children are not for everyone

 

 

You make an interesting point. But I do judge.

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am pretty sure there are plenty of people with children who are primarily concerned with themselves. I can't really see how the value of, say, a pilot or an engineer to a company would be much altered by whether they had children or did not have children. Also, what about if they were married and unable to have children? Does their biology damn them in your eyes as well?

 

To be honest, I have yet to encounter an employer who 'commits' to an employee for any longer than it suits them.

 

 

 

"You're brilliant - we are so lucky to have you here! Your work has been so good."

 

Six months later

 

"Sorry to have to tell you this, but Head Office wants us to cut costs, so we have to let you go."

 

 

 

That's about the sum total of "commitment" most employees will ever see.

 

 

 

I can't really see much difference from your judging to other people judging on grounds of race, sex, disability, sexuality or whatever, really. Just wait until the first gay potential recruit sues you because his sexuality denied him children and you judged him...!






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  #1992455 10-Apr-2018 04:00
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mudguard:

 

DaveB:

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

 

Pretty tricky to find out those things in a job interview. You can't generally ask about family, marital status etc. 

 

 

I am a very private person at work, and never talk about my personal life other than quite simple things like where I went for Christmas holidays, or what type of food I like.

 

If I were asked about my family situation during a job interview it would make me very uncomfortable, but perhaps it would lead to a positive outcome in the sense that I would not end up being offered a job where I didn't fit into the organisational culture.


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  #1992470 10-Apr-2018 07:46
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@DaveB:

 

@darylblake:

 

34 / Single father of 2 here. 

Glad I had them. Love them to bits. Don't judge people who choose not to have them. Children are not for everyone

 

 

You make an interesting point. But I do judge.

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

I guess all those conservative, family-values people that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are all good people?

 

No, having a "family commitment" doesn't make anyone better than anyone else.





 

 

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  #1992473 10-Apr-2018 07:59
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DaveB:

 

darylblake:

 

34 / Single father of 2 here. 

Glad I had them. Love them to bits. Don't judge people who choose not to have them. Children are not for everyone

 

 

You make an interesting point. But I do judge.

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an employer for many years I considered it none of my business what a candidates or staff members family circumstances was. If the information was offered in discussion I was interested and made allownaces when necessary, like time off etc. If not offered I did not ask.





Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #1992479 10-Apr-2018 08:17
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networkn:

 

darylblake:

 

I have no idea what the future holes :D

 

 

Err, umm, really ? :) 

 

 

 

 

Haha yeh, really, and yeh I was supposed to write holds. I was referring in regards to if I ever have anymore or not. 


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  #1992530 10-Apr-2018 09:20
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MikeB4:

 

As an employer for many years I considered it none of my business what a candidates or staff members family circumstances was. If the information was offered in discussion I was interested and made allownaces when necessary, like time off etc. If not offered I did not ask.

 

 

Ditto. 

 

I find that people with/without families tend to perform about as well as each other but get there by different paths. There seems to be a trade-off between planning/regularity v flexibility/responsiveness. But the outcomes are about the same.





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  #1992823 10-Apr-2018 16:16
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I have one daughter; she's turning 21 in a couple of months. I'm lucky that she's grown into a caring, smart young woman who's making good choices in her life. We also share a sense of humour, which drives my wife crazy as the daughter and I are often laughing at things the wife hasn't got yet.

 

On the other hand, my brother has no kids, and never wanted them. His decision was purely lifestyle-driven. He has plenty of money and enjoys spending it on himself and wants that to continue; fair enough - he's worked bloody hard for it and it's his choice what he does with it.


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  #1992927 10-Apr-2018 19:07
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freitasm:

 

@DaveB:

 

@darylblake:

 

34 / Single father of 2 here. 

Glad I had them. Love them to bits. Don't judge people who choose not to have them. Children are not for everyone

 

 

You make an interesting point. But I do judge.

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

I guess all those conservative, family-values people that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are all good people?

 

No, having a "family commitment" doesn't make anyone better than anyone else.

 

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures in our western world, but I guess that the definition of conservatism in the modern world would equate to slightly less than 50% of the new world "order". Your opening comment suggests therefore that "All those other "non conservative, family-values people"  that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are also all good people? 

 

I stand by my view and choice of who I choose to employ - Yes, having a "family commitment" does bring out the best in people. I never once stated that it makes them better people. They better suit my business model. 


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  #1992940 10-Apr-2018 19:29
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DaveB:

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures in our western world, but I guess that the definition of conservatism in the modern world would equate to slightly less than 50% of the new world "order". Your opening comment suggests therefore that "All those other "non conservative, family-values people"  that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are also all good people? 

 

I stand by my view and choice of who I choose to employ - Yes, having a "family commitment" does bring out the best in people. I never once stated that it makes them better people. They better suit my business model. 

 

 

How do you find out someone's personal family related details before you hire them? 


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  #1992946 10-Apr-2018 19:47
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dwilson:

 

DaveB:

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures in our western world, but I guess that the definition of conservatism in the modern world would equate to slightly less than 50% of the new world "order". Your opening comment suggests therefore that "All those other "non conservative, family-values people"  that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are also all good people? 

 

I stand by my view and choice of who I choose to employ - Yes, having a "family commitment" does bring out the best in people. I never once stated that it makes them better people. They better suit my business model. 

 

 

How do you find out someone's personal family related details before you hire them? 

 

 

It's called social interaction. Society has been doing it for thousands of years. I know, I know. The vocal minority is against it, but it still goes on amongst us older folk. It is a building block on which we can mutually agree to co-exist and grow alongside each other in an agreed fashion. Old school I know, but it continues to work.


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  #1992949 10-Apr-2018 19:52
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Can employers discriminate on who they employ, based on whether the employee faces family responsibilities or not, such as having children, or looking after elderly parents etc? I note that in the USA, they appear to have a law they prevents this.


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  #1992950 10-Apr-2018 19:52
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DaveB:

 

freitasm:

 

@DaveB:

 

As an employer, I would choose to commit to a "family focused individual" rather than just a "self focused individual". Any day. Without question. And with the job market the way it is, as an employer I have that choice. And I will continue to have that choice.

 

Experience has taught me that a potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals, has much more to offer than any employee that quite happily demonstrates that they are only concerned about themselves.

 

 

I guess all those conservative, family-values people that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are all good people?

 

No, having a "family commitment" doesn't make anyone better than anyone else.

 

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures in our western world, but I guess that the definition of conservatism in the modern world would equate to slightly less than 50% of the new world "order". Your opening comment suggests therefore that "All those other "non conservative, family-values people"  that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers are also all good people? 

 

I stand by my view and choice of who I choose to employ - Yes, having a "family commitment" does bring out the best in people. I never once stated that it makes them better people. They better suit my business model. 

 

 

Ok, I will change the comment then to be more explicit: over and over we see conservative, family-values people that ended being outed as perverts, tax cheats, scammers - therefore your criteria "potential employee with proven long term family commitments and goals" has no meaning at all, because there's a chance whoever you select may end up in one of the categories listed. Of course the same applies to liberals. My point however is that having a "family commitment" does not indicate what they are or do in their private lives and the impact this might have in your business.





 

 

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