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1431 posts

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  #2006390 2-May-2018 09:15
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Batman:

 

frednz:

 

tdgeek:

 

Put AGW aside. it doesn't really matter if the climate change is due to us or due to nature, its happening. So the pro vs anti argument isn't really relevant.

 

This is problematic, and its not a doomsday article  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/04/30/antarctic-glacier-size-britain-threatens-flood-coastal-towns/

 

 

 

 

 

 

If climate change is solely "due to nature", then we can all relax a little and, for example, only buy an electric car when it actually suits our needs and is better than our existing petrol vehicles.

 

But if climate change "is due to us" or even partly "due to us", then we all need to buy electric vehicles this year, stop all air travel, stop going on cruises, sink all huge ships, get rid of all farm animals, and close down all natural gas and coal-fired power stations immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How is the lithium going to get the into the car and how is the car going to get to New Zealand?

 

 

Stop muddying the waters with silly little practicalities!


 
 
 
 


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  #2006482 2-May-2018 11:46
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MikeB4: The areas that EVs have to work on is price and range the other stuff they are equal to or better. I will qualify that with regards to the used stock entering NZ the quality of a lot of them is poor.

 

I would add to that list: -

 

- Features.  Often EVs have a shorter list of features than a comparable (and usually cheaper ICEV).  This could be a weight/cost reduction strategy.

 

- Cosmetics.  Many models of EV are just plain ugly.

 

EVs still seem to be pitched at people who aren't car-people.





Mike

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  #2006484 2-May-2018 11:50
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Rikkitic:

 

Those evolving deadly mosquito-borne viruses moving towards us as the planet warms are a far greater concern.

 


I caught the tail end of new article last week talking about a vaccine that makes human blood poisonous to mosquito's.

 

I didn't see the mechanism, but I guess if the target antigen was the mosquito's digestive tract,  blood would start attacking it on ingestion.





Mike

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  #2006486 2-May-2018 11:52
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MikeAqua:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Those evolving deadly mosquito-borne viruses moving towards us as the planet warms are a far greater concern.

 


I caught the tail end of new article last week talking about a vaccine that makes human blood poisonous to mosquito's.

 

I didn't see the mechanism, but I guess if the target antigen was the mosquito's digestive tract,  blood would start attacking it on ingestion.

 

 

I would be extremely wary of putting something like that inside my body. Whilst some chemicals are somewhat difficult to avoid, my preference is to avoid chemicals when something else might do, like wearing longer clothes etc. 

 

I found having hairy arms and legs is quite an effective barrier. 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2006494 2-May-2018 12:02
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I think in Asian and African countries where untold numbers of people die each year from mosquito-borne diseases, something like this might be welcomed. Here in the First World we have options. People who live with this all the time do not.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2006496 2-May-2018 12:06
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I wonder if it would cause a significant increase in population and all the new problems associated with that?

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2006498 2-May-2018 12:09
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MikeAqua:

 

MikeB4: The areas that EVs have to work on is price and range the other stuff they are equal to or better. I will qualify that with regards to the used stock entering NZ the quality of a lot of them is poor.

 

I would add to that list: -

 

- Features.  Often EVs have a shorter list of features than a comparable (and usually cheaper ICEV).  This could be a weight/cost reduction strategy.

 

- Cosmetics.  Many models of EV are just plain ugly.

 

EVs still seem to be pitched at people who aren't car-people.

 

 

This is a good point, but another good point may be that people just have to make some compromises and give up some things that are nice to have but not essential in order that those who come after us still have a world to live in. Maybe there is no place for 'car people' in the future. If you are only prepared to consider electric if you can continue to enjoy exactly the same features you have with ICE, then maybe you need to think about it some more. If we really are talking about the survival of humanity, or human civilisation, or the planet itself, we might just have to do without a few conveniences we have become accustomed to. I am not saying this necessarily has to be the case, just that it might be, and if it is, people may have to start getting used to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2006502 2-May-2018 12:17
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Yes no cars. Because we all live in places and do jobs where public transport is an available and sane solution.....





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  #2006508 2-May-2018 12:20
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I was in Melbourne, people were happy to drive and get stuck in traffic for hours because the trams and busses are so full you cannot squeeze anymore sardines into them.

 

That city is awarded the world's most livable city every single year.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2006510 2-May-2018 12:25
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The number one, underlying issue for all these problems, from GW to crammed public transport, is too many human beings.

Unless and until that problem is grasped, along with the politically unpleasant needs like changing the tax system to reward those having none or few children, educating children in the benefits of not having more than replacement children and so on, none of the other problems will be properly solved.





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  #2006513 2-May-2018 12:29
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Geektastic: The number one, underlying issue for all these problems, from GW to crammed public transport, is too many human beings.

Unless and until that problem is grasped, along with the politically unpleasant needs like changing the tax system to reward those having none or few children, educating children in the benefits of not having more than replacement children and so on, none of the other problems will be properly solved.

 

Yet we have a system that is the other way round - it financially encourages having kids! WFF, baby bonuses etc form a fairly massive wealth transfer from no-kid households to households with lots of kids and not much income.

 

There are a lot of poverty stricken people out there with 4, 5, 6 or more kids. Or worse the parents have done a bunk and left the kids with long suffering grandparents.

 

The problem as always is lack of education.


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  #2006530 2-May-2018 13:05
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Rikkitic:

 

This is a good point, but another good point may be that people just have to make some compromises and give up some things that are nice to have but not essential in order that those who come after us still have a world to live in. Maybe there is no place for 'car people' in the future.

 

If you are only prepared to consider electric if you can continue to enjoy exactly the same features you have with ICE, then maybe you need to think about it some more. If we really are talking about the survival of humanity, or human civilisation, or the planet itself, we might just have to do without a few conveniences we have become accustomed to. I am not saying this necessarily has to be the case, just that it might be, and if it is, people may have to start getting used to it.

 

 

The bold bit sums up my position.  I want it cheaper and faster with better range and the same (or better) bells and whistles.

 

New technology should be better and should quickly be cheaper.  EVs are no longer new tech - they should be cheap.  The learning rate is simply awful.  I have my suspicions about both mainstream car manufacturers and the lithium industry.  Tesla seem to be trying to do the right thing, but seem unable to build and run a production line.  Also their cars are fugly.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with an EV from a car-person's perspective.  There are several things to like and several things missing. 

 

I don't believe we are talking about the survival of civilisation or humanity - but I can see mass-humanitarian disasters happening.

 

We certainly aren't talking about the survival of life on earth.  Check out the carboniferous period.  Ecosystems thrived in a warmer, wetter world with twice the current C02 levels.  The short version is: less grass and desert, more forests and swamps and shed loads more C02 and O2 in the atmosphere.

 

 





Mike

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  #2006552 2-May-2018 13:56
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MikeAqua:

 

Rikkitic:

 

This is a good point, but another good point may be that people just have to make some compromises and give up some things that are nice to have but not essential in order that those who come after us still have a world to live in. Maybe there is no place for 'car people' in the future.

 

If you are only prepared to consider electric if you can continue to enjoy exactly the same features you have with ICE, then maybe you need to think about it some more. If we really are talking about the survival of humanity, or human civilisation, or the planet itself, we might just have to do without a few conveniences we have become accustomed to. I am not saying this necessarily has to be the case, just that it might be, and if it is, people may have to start getting used to it.

 

 

The bold bit sums up my position.  I want it cheaper and faster with better range and the same (or better) bells and whistles.

 

New technology should be better and should quickly be cheaper.  EVs are no longer new tech - they should be cheap.  The learning rate is simply awful.  I have my suspicions about both mainstream car manufacturers and the lithium industry.  Tesla seem to be trying to do the right thing, but seem unable to build and run a production line.  Also their cars are fugly.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with an EV from a car-person's perspective.  There are several things to like and several things missing. 

 

I don't believe we are talking about the survival of civilisation or humanity - but I can see mass-humanitarian disasters happening.

 

We certainly aren't talking about the survival of life on earth.  Check out the carboniferous period.  Ecosystems thrived in a warmer, wetter world with twice the current C02 levels.  The short version is: less grass and desert, more forests and swamps and shed loads more C02 and O2 in the atmosphere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of the problem if it is a problem with design is the need for aerodynamics and reducing wind noise. Example the ugly headlight covers on the Nissan Leaf are designed to deflect wind away from the side mirrors. It all comes down to taste with teh looks but really the Teslas are ugly? hmmm in my eyes I really struggle to see how this is ugly https://www.netcarshow.com/tesla/2017-model_s/1600x1200/wallpaper_02.htm

 

I do believe that the car makers are taking the piss a bit with the prices and are probably going for a very short repay time on development cost.

 

As for what the have in a car I will not compromise on any of the safety features like adaptive cruise control, collision mitigation radar, lane departure and weave warning, brake assist and brake force distribution and autonomous breaking. These are not niceties they are essentials. My biggest hurdle is range anxiety, being disabled it scares the heck out of me the idea of running out of juice in the middle of nowhere  or on the motorway, I cannot get out and walk. In my ICE if I were to run out of fuel the road side assist with the warranty will bring me enough fuel to get to the next open gas station. They cannot do this with an electric car. Also if I need to fill up I can pull into a Z station and they will fill the petrol and I can pay without getting out of the vehicle. To recharge requires me to get out of the car set up my wheel chair, connect the charge leads and find an accessible place to wait, then reverse the process when the charge is complete. 

 

 





Mike

 

Consultant

 


The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


5823 posts

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  #2006565 2-May-2018 14:27
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When I said Tesla's were fugly I was mainly thinking about the X and 3.  When I was in Honolulu last year I noticed the Tesla shop and had a look.  Even the S is kind of ugly, compared to other cars at that price point.  I don't have the design language to express why I think it's ugly sorry, other than to say it's a cacophony of varied shapes, some of them quite odd.  I just looked at those cars and thought yuck.

 

I guess we should remember it's an American car, and it's been a long time since a beautiful car was produced in America

 

Setting aesthetics aside, Tesla have made a pigs ear of production.  They are supposedly doing better now.  But the NZ website is still saying reserve now ($1,500) for delivery in 12 to 18 months. Oh and you can't test drive one.  WTF? 





Mike

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