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frankv
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  #2019794 21-May-2018 13:56
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MikeAqua:

 

Interesting point.  We (people) have massively increased erosion (= sediment into ocean) and meteors land in the ocean too. 

 

Intuitively I can't see either of those things causing the magnitude of change observed.  But I'd be curious to see the numbers.

 

Because I'm a scientist and I like to see questions answered empirically, rather than dismissed because of who asked them.

 

 

I like to put numbers on things too. Here's my attempt;

 

Water covers about 70% of the Earth's surface. So, to raise the water level by 3cm, on average 7cm of rock has to be removed from *all* the land (150 million km^2). Thats about 10 trillion cubic metres of eroded rock. Rock density is about 3, so that's about 30 trillion tons. All that rock has to be transported to the sea by rivers. The Mississippi carries 150 million tons annually (although that's *decreasing* with better land management). Assume it's been the same for the last 100 years, so it transported about 1.5 billion tons in the last century. You therefore need about 2,000 rivers the size of the Mississippi to move the eroded rock to the sea. Q.E.D? So, whilst erosion does lower land heights (e.g. the bit that fell off the summit of Mt Cook a few years back), it's just not on this epic scale.

 

As a rough first approximation, if meteorites (meteors don't have any effect ;) unless you want to argue gravitation) were causing the sea level rise, they would also raise the land by about the same amount (ignoring the squashing effect of the meteor's impact, and the material thrown into the air on impact, 70% of which would eventually get into the oceans). Meteors don't have a significant impact (hah!) on topography, so I think it's safe to say they don't significantly raise the sea level.

 

 


MikeAqua
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  #2019842 21-May-2018 14:51
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frankv:

 

Water covers about 70% of the Earth's surface. So, to raise the water level by 3cm, on average 7cm of rock has to be removed from *all* the land (150 million km^2). Thats about 10 trillion cubic metres of eroded rock. Rock density is about 3, so that's about 30 trillion tons. All that rock has to be transported to the sea by rivers. The Mississippi carries 150 million tons annually (although that's *decreasing* with better land management). Assume it's been the same for the last 100 years, so it transported about 1.5 billion tons in the last century. You therefore need about 2,000 rivers the size of the Mississippi to move the eroded rock to the sea. Q.E.D? So, whilst erosion does lower land heights (e.g. the bit that fell off the summit of Mt Cook a few years back), it's just not on this epic scale.

 

 

That makes sense.  Although I've never understood whether that 70% figure takes account of the topography of land or just it's footprint?

 

I found one paper that claimed global discharge of sediment figure of 20 billion tonnes per annum of solid and dissolved sediment.   20 billion per year over 100 years is still an order of magnitude short of the 30 trillion required.

 

 





Mike


 
 
 
 


kryptonjohn
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  #2019852 21-May-2018 14:53
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tdgeek:

 

True and they are building a small city that is supposed to be energy self sufficient. But in the meantime Australia mines and uses coal for power generation, China burns it heavily, the US isnt interested. Once this cheaper form is used up they off course will be interested.

 

 

What do you mean the US isn't interested? 

 

FWIW USA has reduced greenhouse gas emissions to below 2000 level:

 

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions

 

Which is more than most countries have managed. 


Batman
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  #2019857 21-May-2018 15:00
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kryptonjohn:

 

tdgeek:

 

True and they are building a small city that is supposed to be energy self sufficient. But in the meantime Australia mines and uses coal for power generation, China burns it heavily, the US isnt interested. Once this cheaper form is used up they off course will be interested.

 

 

What do you mean the US isn't interested? 

 

FWIW USA has reduced greenhouse gas emissions to below 2000 level:

 

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions

 

Which is more than most countries have managed. 

 

 

Wait till Trump finds out about that ;)

 

He will then personally see to it that all the harm Obama has done be reversed.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Rikkitic
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  #2019871 21-May-2018 15:13
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I doubt Trump can understand it.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


kingdragonfly
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  #2019873 21-May-2018 15:16
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kryptonjohn: What do you mean the US isn't interested? 


FWIW USA has reduced greenhouse gas emissions to below 2000 level:


https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions


Which is more than most countries have managed. 



I'm always happy to hear about reduced Co2 emission, but in the US it may be due to shipping manufacturing jobs aboard.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/2/17189920/environmental-protection-agency-greenhouse-gas

President Trump directs EPA to ease air quality rules he says suffocates industry

"The Environmental Protection Agency is calling for a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions standards for model year 2022-2025 cars and light trucks. The agency said today that the standards — which were put in place by the Obama administration in 2012 — are “not appropriate and should be revised.” The move brings to bear a fight that has been brewing since the earliest days of the Trump administration, when the president called the regulations “out of control” at a meeting with executives of the big three automakers.

The agency cited a recent drop in oil prices and the subsequent decline in the sale of smaller vehicles in favor of crossovers such as SUVs as some of the main reasons it believes the current standards are unreasonable. The EPA will now work with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to develop new standards, which will then have to be proposed and subjected to public comment. "

kryptonjohn
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  #2019894 21-May-2018 15:30
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"I'm always happy to hear about reduced Co2 emission, but in the US it may be due to shipping manufacturing jobs aboard."

 

That seems unlikely to me. Cars are constantly getting more economical and gas from fracking is replacing coal - both reducing GHG emissions.

 

 


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2020008 21-May-2018 18:28
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kryptonjohn:

 

tdgeek:

 

True and they are building a small city that is supposed to be energy self sufficient. But in the meantime Australia mines and uses coal for power generation, China burns it heavily, the US isnt interested. Once this cheaper form is used up they off course will be interested.

 

 

What do you mean the US isn't interested? 

 

FWIW USA has reduced greenhouse gas emissions to below 2000 level:

 

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions

 

Which is more than most countries have managed. 

 

 

Oil and coal are preferred, like Australia.


Ge0rge
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  #2045749 28-Jun-2018 19:46
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The UK is currently experiencing a heatwave, bring the country to a standstill as people find it too hot to work. One can easily attribute this to climate change and an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

There are also a whole lot of soldiers and firefighters struggling to control a massive wildfire. None of these heroic battlers can enjoy a beer at the end of their shift however, as there is a beer shortage in the UK currently. Why? Wait for it...

There is a carbon dioxide shortage in the UK!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44628993

gzt

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  #2045786 28-Jun-2018 22:28
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Someone needs to calculate how much carbon sink the world supply of beer and fizzy drink can provide.

Batman
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  #2045793 28-Jun-2018 23:10
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you can make a list to have a co2 offsetting lifestyle. Don't fly much, don't drive much, don't buy too much new stuff, don't visit bars and restaurants much!





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


frankv
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  #2045828 29-Jun-2018 07:06
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gzt: Someone needs to calculate how much carbon sink the world supply of beer and fizzy drink can provide.

 

Ummm... it's only a sink so long as the bottles remain unopened.

 

 


da5id
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  #2046232 29-Jun-2018 21:54
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CO2 levels have been much higher - up to  2000 and 8000 ppm - even during the Ice Age...

 

 

 

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/ice-age-at-2000-ppm-co2/

 

 

 

So Yeh, I am not worrying.


gzt

gzt
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  #2046270 30-Jun-2018 05:21
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frankv:

gzt: Someone needs to calculate how much carbon sink the world supply of beer and fizzy drink can provide.


Ummm... it's only a sink so long as the bottles remain unopened.


at any one time there are a large number of unopened bottles.

Sidestep
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  #2046273 30-Jun-2018 07:32
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gzt:
frankv:

 

gzt: Someone needs to calculate how much carbon sink the world supply of beer and fizzy drink can provide.

 

 

 

Ummm... it's only a sink so long as the bottles remain unopened.

 


at any one time there are a large number of unopened bottles.

 

The EPA estimates approx 2.2kg of CO2 is emitted when burning a litre of petrol.
A 330ml can of carbonated drink contains roughly 2.2 grams of CO2.

 

You'd have to hoard, unopened, roughly a thousand cans to offset each litre of fuel you use.
The AA's 2017 calculation for average fuel use for a medium NZ vehicle was nine litres of petrol for every 100km driven.

 

So - just stash 9,000 cans of coke for every 100km you drive - and you'll be driving Carbon Neutral!..


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