GST to be charged on purchases below $400

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#2007703 4-May-2018 10:46

Rikkitic:

sleemanj:

So, sorry, but "traders here want $6 or more" is frankly insulting to traders, it's NZ Post and other couriers who want to charge $6 or more to deliver to your rural address.

As somebody else indicated, the reason that international packages can get to your door out in the wop wops for essentially free is down to the way international mail works, while I understand there have been recent adjustments made to the way it's charged by the UPU, I think you will find that in the case of a large volume imbalance (lots of small parcels incoming, not many outgoing) it's the receiving postal carrier that gets landed with the majority of the costs and they are unable to pass that on to you.

Sorry to be insulting to traders but the point I am making is how it looks to me as a rural customer, not how it got that way or whose fault it is. If I buy a dohicky on TradeMe, it costs around $6 (or more) just to have it sent to me. If I buy it on Aliexpress, my total cost is probably a third or less of that on TradeMe. It is a no-brainer.

Those traders can't be responsible for their direct costs to ship something to you being much higher than those of a China based seller. The issue here is that you didn't understand the difference between their costs (which you now do, presumably)...

So either you expect traders to make a loss shipping you stuff (completely unreasonable) or you're just venting that you believe the entire transport industry in NZ is overpriced (unlikely). In either case, blaming Trademe sellers for charging what it costs to send stuff to you is silly.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#2007704 4-May-2018 10:48

Rikkitic:

If I buy it on Aliexpress, my total cost is probably a third or less of that on TradeMe. It is a no-brainer.

In the nicest way, go and buy it from Aliexpress. Not myself nor anyone else running a New Zealand based retail business cares.

Yesterday, I bought a water distiller. I could have bought a Chinese unit off Aliexpress for under $200. I could have bought the same/similiar unit from our local Mitre10 for about $330.

I ended up buying a USA made unit from the local New Zealand distributor and paid $749.90 + $20 courier (because I am at a rural delivery address).

Is that too much to pay for a water distiller? Probably. There is nothing complex about distilling water. But I wanted to stop buying bottled water and get a nice unit. This was the nicest I could find so I paid the price, even though I thought it was a bit expensive.

Ultimately, offering a beter quality product and not paying any regard to "cheap skates" has only benefited my business.

Rikkitic

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#2007726 4-May-2018 11:30

Talkiet:

So either you expect traders to make a loss shipping you stuff (completely unreasonable) or you're just venting that you believe the entire transport industry in NZ is overpriced (unlikely). In either case, blaming Trademe sellers for charging what it costs to send stuff to you is silly.

Cheers - N

I am doing neither. I am stating why it makes sense to me to buy many things overseas. I am a humble consumer. I am not rich. Why should I pay more than I have to? I am not responsible for NZ Post's business decisions or international agreements that enable Chinese shippers to send stuff here for less.

I was not aware that NZ Post had started adding a surcharge for rural delivery of parcels by ordinary post. If that is true, it must make life hard for small traders. That sucks for them but it is not my responsibility. In any case, I was referring to the previous situation, when ordinary post to rural addresses did cost significantly less than courier post. My point was that packages sent to me are delivered in an identical manner, but one costs at least five times more than the other. That doesn't/didn't make sense to me.

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MichaelNZ

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#2007739 4-May-2018 11:41

Rikkitic:

I am doing neither. I am stating why it makes sense to me to buy many things overseas. I am a humble consumer. I am not rich. Why should I pay more than I have to? I am not responsible for NZ Post's business decisions or international agreements that enable Chinese shippers to send stuff here for less.

My business is based in an area of entrenched employment. In other words, this means people who have jobs tend to stay in them year after year. People who don't have jobs have to travel far or are out of luck.

The farming sector is the major employer in this area and they are being screwed over by the current government regime as well.

My business and one other are the only companies outside of farming who are bringing in any export dollars to this area.

Sorry to break it to you, but one way or another, you will pay.

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#2007743 4-May-2018 11:43

MichaelNZ:

In the nicest way, go and buy it from Aliexpress. Not myself nor anyone else running a New Zealand based retail business cares.

Yesterday, I bought a water distiller. I could have bought a Chinese unit off Aliexpress for under $200. I could have bought the same/similiar unit from our local Mitre10 for about $330.

I ended up buying a USA made unit from the local New Zealand distributor and paid $749.90 + $20 courier (because I am at a rural delivery address).

Is that too much to pay for a water distiller? Probably. There is nothing complex about distilling water. But I wanted to stop buying bottled water and get a nice unit. This was the nicest I could find so I paid the price, even though I thought it was a bit expensive.

Ultimately, offering a beter quality product and not paying any regard to "cheap skates" has only benefited my business.

I think apples and oranges are getting mixed up here. If I want high-priced quality or warranty security I would not look for it on Aliexpress. I would buy locally, also for the CGA if it was a costly item. That makes sense to me. I was specifically referring to small purchases, of which I have made many. Things like LED light bulbs, cables, connectors, wireless mice, that sort of thing. For these purchases it just doesn't make financial sense to buy on TradeMe.

As an added note, I would have no problem paying $20 delivery on a $750 item. That is only a little over 2.5% of the price. Quite a bit different from $6 on a $2 item.

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#2007746 4-May-2018 11:46

Rikkitic:

As an added note, I would have no problem paying $20 delivery on a $750 item. That is only a little over 2.5% of the price. Quite a bit different from $6 on a $2 item.

In the nicest possible way, you are being very cheap.

If you want to live out in the country (as I do as well), expect to pay the price which makes it sustainable for others to provide services to you.

Rural New Zealand is well served.

My wife is Filipino and I have travelled through the rural Philippines. That experience really shows me how lucky we have it here in rural New Zealand.

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#2007747 4-May-2018 11:47

MichaelNZ:

Rikkitic:

If I buy it on Aliexpress, my total cost is probably a third or less of that on TradeMe. It is a no-brainer.

In the nicest way, go and buy it from Aliexpress. Not myself nor anyone else running a New Zealand based retail business cares.

Yesterday, I bought a water distiller. I could have bought a Chinese unit off Aliexpress for under $200. I could have bought the same/similiar unit from our local Mitre10 for about $330.

I ended up buying a USA made unit from the local New Zealand distributor and paid $749.90 + $20 courier (because I am at a rural delivery address).

Is that too much to pay for a water distiller? Probably. There is nothing complex about distilling water. But I wanted to stop buying bottled water and get a nice unit. This was the nicest I could find so I paid the price, even though I thought it was a bit expensive.

Ultimately, offering a beter quality product and not paying any regard to "cheap skates" has only benefited my business.

The discussion isn't about buying cheap vs quality it is about the cost difference for the same product.

For example The blind watch maker

from Whitcoulls $28.50 in 12 to 15 days

From the book depository $19.50 in 5-10 days

12v pump

From Fishpond $80

From Aliexpress $27

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MichaelNZ

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#2007750 4-May-2018 11:54

blackjack17:

The discussion isn't about buying cheap vs quality it is about the cost difference for the same product.

"Cost" isn't just the cost of the product but also the cost of doing business.

New Zealand is an expensive country in which to base a business per head of population.

Feel free to buy books overseas. TBH I think books are a dead-loss commercially.

But don't complain when government services are cut, or taxes raised other ways, or job opportunities are fewer.

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#2007751 4-May-2018 11:55

MichaelNZ:

In the nicest possible way, you are being very cheap.

If you want to live out in the country (as I do as well), expect to pay the price which makes it sustainable for others to provide services to you.

Rural New Zealand is well served.

My wife is Filipino and I have travelled through the rural Philippines. That experience really shows me how lucky we have it here in rural New Zealand.

I am a pensioner. It is not my job to subsidise uneconomic business models. If I can get what I need for less, I am not going to go out of my way to pay more. That is hardly a sustainable way of doing things.

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MichaelNZ

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#2007752 4-May-2018 11:57

Rikkitic:

I am a pensioner. It is not my job to subsidise uneconomic business models. If I can get what I need for less, I am not going to go out of my way to pay more. That is hardly a sustainable way of doing things.

And neither is the pension. Personally, I think it should be abolished.

Be careful what you wish for.

Those "uneconomic" (according to you) business models are paying your pension. In Asia (where you buy your cheap stuff from), you would be supported by your children or live in poverty - Asian style.

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#2007756 4-May-2018 12:05

Rikkitic:

MichaelNZ:

In the nicest possible way, you are being very cheap.

If you want to live out in the country (as I do as well), expect to pay the price which makes it sustainable for others to provide services to you.

Rural New Zealand is well served.

My wife is Filipino and I have travelled through the rural Philippines. That experience really shows me how lucky we have it here in rural New Zealand.

I am a pensioner. It is not my job to subsidise uneconomic business models. If I can get what I need for less, I am not going to go out of my way to pay more. That is hardly a sustainable way of doing things.

Who will fund National Superannuation when the retailers and dependent companies in NZ close and the business is done off shore? Amazon, Apple, Google? they don't exactly have a great track record caring for the countries they do business in.

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#2007759 4-May-2018 12:08

That is a silly argument Mike. I am not unsympathetic to small traders. My sister is one. I would not want to have to earn a living that way. But there is no obligation, moral or otherwise, to support unsustainable businesses. Times change, and so do business environments.

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MichaelNZ

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#2007762 4-May-2018 12:15

Rikkitic:

That is a silly argument Mike. I am not unsympathetic to small traders. My sister is one. I would not want to have to earn a living that way. But there is no obligation, moral or otherwise, to support unsustainable businesses. Times change, and so do business environments.

How does this sound?

I move to the Philippines, taking my business overseas. As I am married to a Filipino, I have a right for residency there.

My hired labour will cost me P50 per hour (because I am generous) - which to help you out, is NZ$1.38 per hour.

Furthermore, I will legally pay no tax because the Philippines has an exemption on foreign sourced income.

I am not suggesting this is a good idea. I am well aware of the realities on the ground in the Philippines.

Just food for thought.

In 20 years time, the Philippines may be on the up. This is if Mr President succeeds on his war on drugs and corruption. To be clear this is not a political post and I am well aware of the controversy over this... In any case, I doubt New Zealand will be on the up.

Our children will be dual citizens and able to hold both passports so being Filipino won't hold them back travel wise.

If they are seeking out opportunity, where will they go?

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#2007778 4-May-2018 12:42

Rikkitic:

That is a silly argument Mike. I am not unsympathetic to small traders. My sister is one. I would not want to have to earn a living that way. But there is no obligation, moral or otherwise, to support unsustainable businesses. Times change, and so do business environments.

It is not a silly argument, there are in excess of 260,000 people directly employed in the retail sector, add to that all the ancillary dependent businesses and that figure will probably double. Cheap imports from non tax paying companies is a real and direct threat to those people. Who is going to employ them? who is going to fund the massive increase in unemployment which in these situation spreads like a virus as the domino's fall? The upheavals of the eighties will pale to what could happen and it will take decades to recover as it did to recover from the eighties, something we are still doing.

There is for me a moral obligation as the folks employed NOW in retail are those that fund your National Superannuation and mine in the not too distant future.

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#2007807 4-May-2018 13:00

MichaelNZ:
Rikkitic:

As an added note, I would have no problem paying $20 delivery on a $750 item. That is only a little over 2.5% of the price. Quite a bit different from $6 on a $2 item.

In the nicest possible way, you are being very cheap.

If you want to live out in the country (as I do as well), expect to pay the price which makes it sustainable for others to provide services to you.

Rural New Zealand is well served.

My wife is Filipino and I have travelled through the rural Philippines. That experience really shows me how lucky we have it here in rural New Zealand.

However by comparison, Royal Mail in the UK are obliged to offer universal pricing, so sending something to a person 2 miles from the posting location in London costs the same as sending it to someone 1500km away on the Shetland islands.

It's a different approach.

On the issue of rural posting and couriers here it gets quite confusing as to how is dealt with. We have some that will only deliver to a depot, some that dump it on the RD Postman adding a day or two, some that deliver to the house, one that delivers to the POB and so on.

The lack of universality and clarity can cause a lot of confusion and delay.

Having done assignments in the Philippines I'll agree NZ is much better. Although the Lechon almost makes up for it...

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