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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007808 4-May-2018 13:02
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With the best will in the world, you cannot artificially maintain an economic model that is no longer viable. I think Muldoon tried something like that. New Zealand cannot isolate itself from the rest of the world. If our retail sector is so vulnerable to foreign competition it cannot survive in the long term anyway. Rather than trying to protect it with unsustainable measures, it needs to evolve into something that can compete. 

 

It is not relevant to this discussion, but as a point of information my pension is not paid in this country. It comes from the Netherlands.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2007825 4-May-2018 13:17
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Rikkitic:

 

I am a pensioner. It is not my job to subsidise uneconomic business models. If I can get what I need for less, I am not going to go out of my way to pay more. That is hardly a sustainable way of doing things.

 

 

Then you should be opposed to these overseas sellers on AliExpress where the first mile shipping is subsidised by the Chinese Government, and the last mile shipping is subsidised by the New Zealand taxpayer, because New Zealand Post cannot under international treaties charge the true cost of delivery.

 

Spare a thought for Australia Post, who have even further to lug a $2 AliExpress widget that they got 5c in delivery fees for.


 
 
 
 


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  #2007826 4-May-2018 13:18
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Rikkitic:

 

With the best will in the world, you cannot artificially maintain an economic model that is no longer viable. I think Muldoon tried something like that. New Zealand cannot isolate itself from the rest of the world. If our retail sector is so vulnerable to foreign competition it cannot survive in the long term anyway. Rather than trying to protect it with unsustainable measures, it needs to evolve into something that can compete. 

 

It is not relevant to this discussion, but as a point of information my pension is not paid in this country. It comes from the Netherlands.

 

 

 

 

You haven't answered the questions I asked regarding funding and what to do with the unemployed





Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007829 4-May-2018 13:31
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These discussions often seem to spiral out of control. I have made my position clear. I am a private consumer with a limited income who makes purchasing decisions on the basis of getting the best deal I can. This is a perfectly normal and legitimate thing to do. I am not a politician. I am not a civil servant. I do not work for the Commerce Commission. I do not bear special responsibility for the economic direction of New Zealand. I am just a private person trying to get by as best I can. It is not my responsibility or competence to answer questions of national interest about funding and what to do with the unemployed. You should take that kind of thing up with your MP.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2007831 4-May-2018 13:33
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Kyanar:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I am a pensioner. It is not my job to subsidise uneconomic business models. If I can get what I need for less, I am not going to go out of my way to pay more. That is hardly a sustainable way of doing things.

 

 

Then you should be opposed to these overseas sellers on AliExpress where the first mile shipping is subsidised by the Chinese Government, and the last mile shipping is subsidised by the New Zealand taxpayer, because New Zealand Post cannot under international treaties charge the true cost of delivery.

 

Spare a thought for Australia Post, who have even further to lug a $2 AliExpress widget that they got 5c in delivery fees for.

 

 

Do you have links to official info on the international treaties? I've tried to find good sources on this before to get my head around exactly what goes on, but haven't been able to get very far.

 

Also, has anyone noticed that in the week surrounding this announcement Amazon US has increased their baseline shipping costs to NZ quite dramatically?

 

I really think the Govt should be looking at ways to get rid of GST entirely. It's only a fair tax for higher wealth individuals who don't need to spend the majority of their income, it incentivises business to business loopholes for items that are ultimately for personal use, worsens wealth inequality, and while it isn't a particularly difficult tax to administer, it's certainly a lot more difficult to administer than no GST at all.

 

I think there is a general sentiment around here that many retailers in NZ are ripping us off - I'm not so sure that's strictly true. There definitely are retailers that are, but in many situations its the distribution chain, or real estate moguls that are the cause of the high prices - the retailers aren't making that much.

 

That said, there are definitely retailers that don't deserve to be in business, and provide zero if not negative value over massive online marketplaces like Amazon, eBay, Alix. Look at the state of furniture retailing in this country, or sports equipment. Then there's the likes of the Briscoe group who sell low quality, low value goods at absurd markups with perpetual sales, have staff that have near zero knowledge of the products they sell, and provide a worse retail experience than if customers just went into the distributor's warehouses and picked stuff out of pallets. At least then you might get some decent stock management. Almost every kitchen-related product in that store is a short lifespan variant of a better product that, because of poor distribution and retail channels in NZ, is difficult or extremely expensive to get here.


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  #2007832 4-May-2018 13:37
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Rikkitic:

 

These discussions often seem to spiral out of control. I have made my position clear. I am a private consumer with a limited income who makes purchasing decisions on the basis of getting the best deal I can. This is a perfectly normal and legitimate thing to do. I am not a politician. I am not a civil servant. I do not work for the Commerce Commission. I do not bear special responsibility for the economic direction of New Zealand. I am just a private person trying to get by as best I can. It is not my responsibility or competence to answer questions of national interest about funding and what to do with the unemployed. You should take that kind of thing up with your MP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is the same "its not me" attitude so many have about the environment or the nimby attitude for house solutions etc etc etc . Yet if taxes need to go up to pay the fix up they moan and gripe. 





Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2007833 4-May-2018 13:37
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Rikkitic:

 

These discussions often seem to spiral out of control. I have made my position clear. I am a private consumer with a limited income who makes purchasing decisions on the basis of getting the best deal I can. This is a perfectly normal and legitimate thing to do. I am not a politician. I am not a civil servant. I do not work for the Commerce Commission. I do not bear special responsibility for the economic direction of New Zealand. I am just a private person trying to get by as best I can. It is not my responsibility or competence to answer questions of national interest about funding and what to do with the unemployed. You should take that kind of thing up with your MP.

 

To be honest, I couldn't care less you are only out for yourself. The great irony/hypocrisy is you, as a beneficiary, would be the first to jump up and down and whail to kingdom come if you benefit doesn't get paid.





Integrity Tech Solutions @ Norsewood, New Zealand


 
 
 
 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007836 4-May-2018 14:01
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There is a difference between a beneficiary and a pensioner, and like I said, my pension doesn't come from New Zealand. Because of that I am a net contributor to this economy and your tone is beginning to verge on offensive. I'm sorry if life is hard for you as a small trader but that is just the way things are. You said I should not choose to live rural if I don't like the added costs that brings. By the same token, maybe you should look for another line of work if you don't like the difficulties of your current one.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2007837 4-May-2018 14:07
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Rikkitic:

 

There is a difference between a beneficiary and a pensioner, and like I said, my pension doesn't come from New Zealand. Because of that I am a net contributor to this economy and your tone is beginning to verge on offensive.

 

 

The only difference between "pension" and "benefit" is the terminology the "super-blue" brigade uses to try and justify beating up on the unemployed and solo mothers, while they themselves are on the take.

 

By your own admission, you claim to be poor and rely on importing cheap stuff from 3rd world countries, where people live in real poverty. That doesn't sound like a contribution to me.

 

Rikkitic:

 

I'm sorry if life is hard for you as a small trader but that is just the way things are. You said I should not choose to live rural if I don't like the added costs that brings. By the same token, maybe you should look for another line of work if you don't like the difficulties of your current one.

 

 

You are the one who is complaining about not having enough money to buy nice stuff. If your benefit was cut you would be out on the street. Think about that for a moment before posting.





Integrity Tech Solutions @ Norsewood, New Zealand


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  #2007839 4-May-2018 14:16
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Rikkitic:

 

There is a difference between a beneficiary and a pensioner, and like I said, my pension doesn't come from New Zealand. Because of that I am a net contributor to this economy and your tone is beginning to verge on offensive. I'm sorry if life is hard for you as a small trader but that is just the way things are. You said I should not choose to live rural if I don't like the added costs that brings. By the same token, maybe you should look for another line of work if you don't like the difficulties of your current one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your pension may come from off shore but you are receiving considerable benefits that taxation is required to meet both now and for the future. Caring for New Zealands' financial future is just as important as care for our ecological future. Those offshore corporations that peddle their wares here contribute zero to both and sure as hell wont contribute if things go pear shaped for us. 





Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2007841 4-May-2018 14:23
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MikeB4:

 

Your pension may come from off shore but you are receiving considerable benefits that taxation is required to meet both now and for the future. Caring for New Zealands' financial future is just as important as care for our ecological future. Those offshore corporations that peddle their wares here contribute zero to both and sure as hell wont contribute if things go pear shaped for us. 

 

 

I am for free trade. The problem is when people want their cake and eat it too.

 

Politically, I am broadly centrist and unaffiliated.

 

I value free and open discourse and have engaged many times with dyed in the wool Green party, ACT party and everything inbetween.

 

There is no easy answers and the world is becoming a far more grey place due to globalisation. Things which were previously only a abstract concept to us in the highly-developed world are fast coming closer to home, and very much so for me, as I am married to a lady from a 3rd world country.

 

Thee is no free lunch. Not with the ideas I advocate nor anyone else's.





Integrity Tech Solutions @ Norsewood, New Zealand


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007853 4-May-2018 14:50
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MichaelNZ:

 

By your own admission, you claim to be poor and rely on importing cheap stuff from 3rd world countries, where people live in real poverty. That doesn't sound like a contribution to me.

 

 

That is the first decent argument you have made and I think it is a valid one. The rest just sounds like bitterness because you can't compete.

 

I will try to answer this point because I think it is a serious one. First, I do not claim to be poor. I am not poor. I live well for my income. But I am not rich either.

 

I do not rely on importing cheap stuff from 3rd world countries. I buy cheap electronics stuff from China. If I couldn't get it I would buy it locally, though probably not as much. Some of it is nice to have rather than what I absolutely need.

 

I honestly don't know if those making the things I buy are being exploited. I do know that in the past, employees of Foxconn were so badly treated they were committing suicide. I believe that was dealt with. My impression is that the Chinese are able to produce things more cheaply because they have a lower wage economy, not because children are being enslaved. I don't think China can be compared to the Philippines, or Bangladesh, or other places like that, but even if it could, it wouldn't make any difference to your argument. Even if I bought everything through TradeMe, it would still be manufactured in China. It might benefit a few New Zealand traders, but it wouldn't make a blind bit of different to the people making the things, so your point doesn't really go anywhere.

 

Apart from that, trade isn't a one-way street. It benefits everyone, producers as well as consumers. That is the contribution. If those making the goods are being exploited, that is a matter for national and international law. If there were Fair Trade labels on electronics (I am not aware of any) that would also influence my purchasing decisions.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2007858 4-May-2018 14:59
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MikeB4:

 

Your pension may come from off shore but you are receiving considerable benefits that taxation is required to meet both now and for the future. Caring for New Zealands' financial future is just as important as care for our ecological future. Those offshore corporations that peddle their wares here contribute zero to both and sure as hell wont contribute if things go pear shaped for us. 

 

 

I am also paying tax on my income, just like everyone else. Except my income is generated overseas. According to your argument, if everyone in this country suddenly stopped shopping elsewhere and only did all their purchasing in New Zealand, all our financial problems would be solved. I know you are smarter than that. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2007859 4-May-2018 15:04
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I buy very little off shore. If what I am looking for is available in New Zealand I will buy in local stores. If I am buying online I look to NZ based companies like Mighty Ape and Ascent for example. 





Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2007860 4-May-2018 15:04
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Rikkitic:

 

I honestly don't know if those making the things I buy are being exploited. I do know that in the past, employees of Foxconn were so badly treated they were committing suicide. I believe that was dealt with. My impression is that the Chinese are able to produce things more cheaply because they have a lower wage economy, not because children are being enslaved. I don't think China can be compared to the Philippines, or Bangladesh, or other places like that, but even if it could, it wouldn't make any difference to your argument. Even if I bought everything through TradeMe, it would still be manufactured in China. It might benefit a few New Zealand traders, but it wouldn't make a blind bit of different to the people making the things, so your point doesn't really go anywhere.

 

 

My experience of the Philippines is first hand, whereas my understanding of China is based on a remote view.

 

The Philippines is a low wage economy and this is very real.

 

It does, however, have a lot greater personal freedoms than China does.

 

Rikkitic:

 

I am also paying tax on my income, just like everyone else. Except my income is generated overseas. According to your argument, if everyone in this country suddenly stopped shopping elsewhere and only did all their purchasing in New Zealand, all our financial problems would be solved. I know you are smarter than that. 

 

 

You are correct and I can confirm I am personally against economic nationalism. Actually, I don't even care you buy from Aliexpress.

 

It is only my hope people think this through and research for themselves what creates and sustains their world. Because in New Zealand and the Netherlands (where presumably you are from) we have a standard of living and personal freedoms (incl of travel) which are very good and this is based on certain economic and social recipes.





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