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  #2010518 9-May-2018 10:07
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sonyxperiageek: How much do you reckon you will need by the time you're 65? I know it will different per person, but keen to hear others' values.

 

Assuming we own our home and are debt free, largely self sufficient for energy ... I think about $100k per couple for our active years (travel, fishing, cars).

 

My parents have invested in a couple of relatively hands-off businesses pre-retirement that generate a comfortable income as well as keeping them active and mentally engaged.  Those businesses also generate employment in a small town.

 

My plan is to do something similar.





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  #2011569 9-May-2018 11:22
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No one so far mentioned raising rich kids.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


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  #2011579 9-May-2018 11:33
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Maybe they are rich because they don't spend money on their parents.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2011581 9-May-2018 11:34
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Waiting for Rich family to hand it down the chain.
On the 'having rich kids debate' They tried to tell me I was smart, to be an engineer, lawyer or Pilot (Even had a plane in the family) but I ignored them and went into "IT" and rushed myself into a position where I am now stuck at the bottom. Silly me hey.

Hindsight is the best sight. 


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  #2011619 9-May-2018 12:25
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@MikeAqua You talking 100k per year per couple?

@Coil Hey, you could be an IT engineer for a law firm or commercial plane company! ;-)




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  #2011624 9-May-2018 12:29
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sonyxperiageek: 

@Coil Hey, you could be an IT engineer for a law firm or commercial plane company! ;-)

 

 

 

Studied an entry level paper that is worth less than the debt I accrued getting it. Now in a position where I have to work to live and I cannot study even on the side. Can't live off of parents or anything to retrain so I am stuck. The fact I also disregarded NCEA and went straight to tertiary and then work ruined any chances of Uni entry and Air Force... As a big child, My Parents were not wrong at all when they say 'make the most of it now' and that your school years are a small drop in the ocean. 

I hate IT but seem to be good at certain aspects of it. 


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  #2011643 9-May-2018 12:41
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sonyxperiageek: @MikeAqua You talking 100k per year per couple?

 

Yep.  But see my qualifications around no mortgage/rent etc and lowish cost of living.  And I plan to do a lot of growing/catching of my own food and fuel.  Small house on a lifestyle block is the plan.





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  #2012675 9-May-2018 13:26
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MikeAqua:

 

sonyxperiageek: @MikeAqua You talking 100k per year per couple?

 

Yep.  But see my qualifications around no mortgage/rent etc and lowish cost of living.  And I plan to do a lot of growing/catching of my own food and fuel.  Small house on a lifestyle block is the plan.

 

 

We're planning to live (in similar situation, off grid, mortgage free etc) on about half that.

 

Aiming to have NZ1.3 - 1.5m invtested at 5% return.
I don't expect there will be much NZ super for me.. or at least it will be means tested with an increase in eligibility age.

I'm sure enough of that we're about to head overseas and probably loose eligibility (the 5 years res when over 50) in exchange for
higher earnings, spreading our geographic risk, resetting our over-allocation to real estate, better tax regime.

 

Plan is to retire back to NZ in 15-18 years.


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  #2012714 9-May-2018 14:16
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raytaylor:

 

Some people dont realise robots are already here for our jobs - and the most obvious is the self checkout at the Pak N Save, or the complete removal of checkout operators at the KMart 

 

So I think its best to assume the pension wont be avaliable, or it will at least be means tested. 

 

Student allowances are means tested against your parents - maybe pensions will be means tested against your kids?

 

Better to be saving more than you need. 

 

 

I don't think that it's known for sure what impact automation/AI will have on overall employment.

 

But if in fact it does means fewer jobs, that means more competition for remaining jobs, that means lower wages - and if that also means that to allow for an (unknown) future that might look like that, "saving more than you need" simply won't be possible.

 

What will happen is that unless the bounty / profits from automation are redistributed, is that either eventually the owners of the automated factories will have their heads displayed on pikes in town squares, or they'll have to build robots to protect themselves from that happening.

 

 

 

 


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  #2012724 9-May-2018 14:40
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What about the idea that AI will generate so much productivity and wealth that most people won't need jobs and will receive a permanent basic income to do whatever they like while robots do all the work?

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2012733 9-May-2018 14:51
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Rikkitic:

 

What about the idea that AI will generate so much productivity and wealth that most people won't need jobs and will receive a permanent basic income to do whatever they like while robots do all the work?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was going to happen with mass production. Computers were going to create the paperless office...… 





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  #2012744 9-May-2018 15:08
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MikeB4:

 

Computers were going to create the paperless office...… 

 

 

Which actually has actually happened in many workplaces - it just took longer than people expected and of course there will still be some laggards.

 

I believe that A4 printer paper sales have been steadily declining in recent years.

 

 


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  #2012752 9-May-2018 15:25
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This is all very demoralizing to think about haha. It's bad enough having a house to pay off (and fix).

Contributing the minimum to Kiwisaver is not really going to be enough come retirement time is it - even the 8% contribution to Kiwisaver over say 40 years probably wouldn't be enough. 

 

Looks like you've just got to somehow get cunning. 


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  #2012764 9-May-2018 15:38
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Fred99:

 

I don't think that it's known for sure what impact automation/AI will have on overall employment.

 

But if in fact it does means fewer jobs, that means more competition for remaining jobs, that means lower wages - and if that also means that to allow for an (unknown) future that might look like that, "saving more than you need" simply won't be possible.

 

What will happen is that unless the bounty / profits from automation are redistributed, is that either eventually the owners of the automated factories will have their heads displayed on pikes in town squares, or they'll have to build robots to protect themselves from that happening.

 

 

Quite right.

 

The converse is also true. Manufacturers *need* people to have enough money to buy their products. If people can't get money by working because of all the automation and AI, manufacturers will need people to get money some other way.

 

A large proportion of the NZ economy is driven by poor people. Poor people spend all of their income, so any money they get goes back into circulation immediately. (But if people are so poor that they don't have any money to spend, then the whole economy will break down. And then the pikes come into play...) Rich people, on the other hand, tend to be cash sinks; money going to them doesn't get spent immediately, and when it does get spent, it can be on unproductive things like beach houses and luxury cars and superyachts, or spent overseas. Younger people are also cash sinks, as they pay for their house. Older people, OTOH, are cash sources; they're spending all they get, *plus* some of their savings.

 

 


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  #2012779 9-May-2018 15:58
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Yep - and robots won't demand higher wages, withhold labour (strike), and unionise - which was the thing which actually allowed assembly line production to flourish, resulting in the car industry producing millions of Model T Fords instead of a very few bespoke horseless carriages.

 

This time I do feel we're on a potential collision course with Karl Marx, denied of course because, well, commies.

 

 

 

 


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