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Wiggum
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  #2026921 1-Jun-2018 14:15
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Amazons clear tax aversion shows that they are not a good corporate citizen, not only are they a major tax avoider they are showing they will not assist in tax collection in the countries they do business. So they are a leach on the markets they operate in and intend to give nothing back.

 

 

Tax avoidance is not a crime and I think you are confusing it with tax evasion. No need to make a moral case out of this one.

 

Same can be said about many corporates. Do you buy from Amazon?

 

 

Where in any of my posts did I say "tax evasion"? 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.


tdgeek
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  #2026923 1-Jun-2018 14:18
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Amazons clear tax aversion shows that they are not a good corporate citizen, not only are they a major tax avoider they are showing they will not assist in tax collection in the countries they do business. So they are a leach on the markets they operate in and intend to give nothing back.

 

 

Tax avoidance is not a crime and I think you are confusing it with tax evasion. No need to make a moral case out of this one.

 

Same can be said about many corporates. Do you buy from Amazon?

 

 

Where in any of my posts did I say "tax evasion"? 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

Maybe ban tax? How will that work for you? 


 
 
 
 


Wiggum
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  #2026925 1-Jun-2018 14:19
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

The global tax system needs to be reformed.

 

VAT/GST and sales taxes should probably go - despite the apparent simplicity of the NZ system - it's 3 decades out of date - devised in times when free global consumer-level trade in goods and services wasn't really a thing.

 

 

Alternatives?  If we cannot tax goods we tax ourselves? Increase income tax to cover GST?

 

In any case, its very easy for Amazon to collect GST or VAT, they already do it via US sales taxes. They are just playing a power game

 

 

its actually pretty complicated. Items sold in the US are also liable for US sales tax. This is a tax on top of another tax that will need to be charged. Considering the added logistics I don't blame Amazon if they dont want to do it.


MikeB4
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  #2026931 1-Jun-2018 14:25
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Wiggum:

 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

 

 

So you are happy with a corporation with say revenue in the tens of billions declaring zero taxable income and paying zero tax? yet its presence in the country is a cost to the country


Wiggum
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  #2026932 1-Jun-2018 14:28
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

 

 

So you are happy with a corporation with say revenue in the tens of billions declaring zero taxable income and paying zero tax? yet its presence in the country is a cost to the country

 

 

Last time I checked Amazon was not in our country (New Zealand). Different story for AUS. Maybe explain why you think they are a cost to our country, and why you feel they should be paying tax here.


tdgeek
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  #2026933 1-Jun-2018 14:30
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

The global tax system needs to be reformed.

 

VAT/GST and sales taxes should probably go - despite the apparent simplicity of the NZ system - it's 3 decades out of date - devised in times when free global consumer-level trade in goods and services wasn't really a thing.

 

 

Alternatives?  If we cannot tax goods we tax ourselves? Increase income tax to cover GST?

 

In any case, its very easy for Amazon to collect GST or VAT, they already do it via US sales taxes. They are just playing a power game

 

 

its actually pretty complicated. Items sold in the US are also liable for US sales tax. This is a tax on top of another tax that will need to be charged. Considering the added logistics I don't blame Amazon if they dont want to do it.

 

 

Its not hard. Add 15% tax to items shipped to NZ. Earn interest until you send the funds in one transfer to the IRD. In the US sales taxes vary state to state, in NZ it doesnt, even easier, no need to manage taxes by zipcode, manage it by "NZ"  Its not hard at all. Its harder to capture smaller online sellers, but the big boys, easy. But they dont want to.

 

Im not sure what the bias is here. Saving money?  Amazon vs Govt, so go Amazon as we hate Govts and taxes?  Lets remove GST and replace it with something else. 


Wiggum
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  #2026934 1-Jun-2018 14:33
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tdgeek:

 

Its not hard. Add 15% tax to items shipped to NZ. Earn interest until you send the funds in one transfer to the IRD. In the US sales taxes vary state to state, in NZ it doesnt, even easier, no need to manage taxes by zipcode, manage it by "NZ"  Its not hard at all. Its harder to capture smaller online sellers, but the big boys, easy. But they dont want to.

 

Im not sure what the bias is here. Saving money?  Amazon vs Govt, so go Amazon as we hate Govts and taxes?  Lets remove GST and replace it with something else. 

 

 

They not a NZ company, they dont need to pay tax here. End of story. Kudos to them if they give our government the finger.


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2026936 1-Jun-2018 14:36
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

 

 

So you are happy with a corporation with say revenue in the tens of billions declaring zero taxable income and paying zero tax? yet its presence in the country is a cost to the country

 

 

Last time I checked Amazon was not in our country (New Zealand). Different story for AUS. Maybe explain why you think they are a cost to our country, and why you feel they should be paying tax here.

 

 

The issue is not about Amazon paying taxes here. It is about collecting a tax and simply passing that to the IRD, although MikeB4 is talking about general corporate tax avoidance.


tdgeek
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  #2026937 1-Jun-2018 14:39
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Its not hard. Add 15% tax to items shipped to NZ. Earn interest until you send the funds in one transfer to the IRD. In the US sales taxes vary state to state, in NZ it doesnt, even easier, no need to manage taxes by zipcode, manage it by "NZ"  Its not hard at all. Its harder to capture smaller online sellers, but the big boys, easy. But they dont want to.

 

Im not sure what the bias is here. Saving money?  Amazon vs Govt, so go Amazon as we hate Govts and taxes?  Lets remove GST and replace it with something else. 

 

 

They not a NZ company, they dont need to pay tax here. End of story. Kudos to them if they give our government the finger.

 

 

You are confusing paying taxes here with collecting a NZ tax and paying it to IRD. Its ok for The diary down the street to do that, so why not Amazon?

 

Bunnings sells imported goods to Kiwis too, they collect and pass on GST, why not Amazon?


MikeB4
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  #2026938 1-Jun-2018 14:40
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

 

 

So you are happy with a corporation with say revenue in the tens of billions declaring zero taxable income and paying zero tax? yet its presence in the country is a cost to the country

 

 

Last time I checked Amazon was not in our country (New Zealand). Different story for AUS. Maybe explain why you think they are a cost to our country, and why you feel they should be paying tax here.

 

 

1. In my post above I said "you are happy with a corporation"

 

2. Amazon has a corporate presence in NZ


Wiggum
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  #2026944 1-Jun-2018 14:45
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tdgeek:

 

You are confusing paying taxes here with collecting a NZ tax and paying it to IRD. Its ok for The diary down the street to do that, so why not Amazon?

 

Bunnings sells imported goods to Kiwis too, they collect and pass on GST, why not Amazon?

 

 

Both are NZ listen companies, GST registered too. So yes they should be doing it.

 

I'm really struggling with the concept of asking overseas non NZ based corporations to collect NZ GST.


surfisup1000
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  #2026945 1-Jun-2018 14:47
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MikeB4:

 

Amazons clear tax aversion shows that they are not a good corporate citizen, not only are they a major tax avoider they are showing they will not assist in tax collection in the countries they do business. So they are a leach on the markets they operate in and intend to give nothing back.

 

 

I would argue exactly the opposite .

 

Amazon are a very good corporate citizen, complying with all laws while providing a service of which the world has never seen before. 

 

With respect to international taxation, the OECD recognises there is a problem and are working on it.   It is not so simple as you seem to make out. International tax law is not something that NZ can go alone on (backfiring spectacularly) . Rather, it requires the big OECD nations to come up with a solution. 

 

Instead of calling Amazon names ( a 'leach on markets'), what do you want them to do? Voluntary tax payments? 


sbiddle
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  #2026946 1-Jun-2018 14:51
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

The global tax system needs to be reformed.

 

VAT/GST and sales taxes should probably go - despite the apparent simplicity of the NZ system - it's 3 decades out of date - devised in times when free global consumer-level trade in goods and services wasn't really a thing.

 

 

Alternatives?  If we cannot tax goods we tax ourselves? Increase income tax to cover GST?

 

In any case, its very easy for Amazon to collect GST or VAT, they already do it via US sales taxes. They are just playing a power game

 

 

its actually pretty complicated. Items sold in the US are also liable for US sales tax. This is a tax on top of another tax that will need to be charged. Considering the added logistics I don't blame Amazon if they dont want to do it.

 

 

But Amazon already collect NZ GST, duty and IETF fees on products that incur these charges. What are the added logistics you speak of?

 

 

 

 


Wiggum
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  #2026947 1-Jun-2018 14:52
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MikeB4:

 

Amazon has a corporate presence in NZ

 

 

Thats debatable. They have an online presence. Down the rabbit hole we go....

 

Should we be expecting all online retailers that ship to NZ to collect GST? Or are we just going with the big ones?its a half baked solution anyway.


tdgeek
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  #2026949 1-Jun-2018 14:54
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

You are confusing paying taxes here with collecting a NZ tax and paying it to IRD. Its ok for The diary down the street to do that, so why not Amazon?

 

Bunnings sells imported goods to Kiwis too, they collect and pass on GST, why not Amazon?

 

 

Both are NZ listen companies, GST registered too. So yes they should be doing it.

 

I'm really struggling with the concept of asking overseas non NZ based corporations to collect NZ GST.

 

 

Two methods. Amazon for example is one company, easy to collect the GST, that's no issue. They are selling to Kiwis, and NZ tax law means GST needs to be paid for sales of goods and services consumed in NZ

 

 

 

Or, each kiwi goes to a point to collect the $5 bangle and pay GST, and picks up the item.

 

Which is easier?


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