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785 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2027269 1-Jun-2018 21:37
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

Well quiet frankly I can't understand why you would feel so strongly against Tax avoidance. We all do that, at least everybody I know hates paying tax and will try to legally pay as little as possible! You not the same? I don't classify myself or anybody else I know that hates paying taxes as a leach.

 

 

So you are happy with a corporation with say revenue in the tens of billions declaring zero taxable income and paying zero tax? yet its presence in the country is a cost to the country

 

 

Last time I checked Amazon was not in our country (New Zealand). Different story for AUS. Maybe explain why you think they are a cost to our country, and why you feel they should be paying tax here.

 

 

The cost to NZ is not obvious but we have an internet infrastructure, roading, border/postal staff, pilots etc that all enable a company like Amazon to exist. How is any of their business possible without an interconnected world both physically and digitally along with a population who has disposable income to purchase their goods?

 

People think it's the government trying to create a level playing field. It's not, they are trying to keep the lights on for the country as the traditional tax stream dries up due to online shopping.

 

I don't understand how someone can truly objectively sit back and see how all that NZ has was built on a collective effort? People who avoid tax for personal gain are pricks. But then I despise most people who are individualistic anyway...


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  Reply # 2027278 1-Jun-2018 21:50
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Wiggum: Just checked some amazon invoices of mine. No GST or duty charged for my NZ orders to Nz address. Cant find a single one. Anybody else here been charged GST/duty by Amazon?

 

I have. When it comes close to the threshold they err on the side of caution and charge it, then refund it afterwards.


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  Reply # 2027290 1-Jun-2018 22:09
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I guess Westfield, Harvey Norman, Noel Leeming, JBHiFi, and other big retailers in the malls will be absolutely ecstatic at this news.  I think a lot of things in NZ were deliberately priced to make it hardly worthwhile to buy from the USA - think cameras for one.


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  Reply # 2027321 1-Jun-2018 23:36
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Wiggum:

its actually pretty complicated. Items sold in the US are also liable for US sales tax. This is a tax on top of another tax that will need to be charged. Considering the added logistics I don't blame Amazon if they dont want to do it.



This really is one of the sillier reasons I've seen and it appears pretty consistently.

Ecommerce sites run massive databases that dynamically suggest products based on the web pages you visit, your purchasing history etc but can't do a calculation that can be done on a pocket calculator as its too complex and the logistics are hard. What a load of arrant nonsense.

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  Reply # 2027324 1-Jun-2018 23:41
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I can understand why these overseas companies would do this. The hassle of all the red tape would be a nightmare I think. I don't mind paying the GST at all, but I think the government need to think of a better way to do it, and I don't recall this being an election policy anyway.

 

I can imagine that freight forwarding companies  would also be required to charge it if people try to use their services.  


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  Reply # 2027333 2-Jun-2018 01:05
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You don’t pay freight forwarding companies for the contents, just cost of forwarding parcel.

Or would they have to know value of contents and add GST to it as though they are the seller?

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  Reply # 2027335 2-Jun-2018 04:17
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I'm not surprised.

I've pointed out more than once that this was a probable outcome.





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  Reply # 2027338 2-Jun-2018 07:04
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sbiddle:

You are of course aware of the de minimis threshold for GST / duty collection? Obviously any orders that doesn't exceed the $50 de minimis value won't have this charged nor the IETF.



De minimus changed to $60 last time get went up. That kept the total for something without duty at $400.

When we were encouraged to switch Amazon login to the AU site there was to be no problem switching back. Amazon only operate their gift cards on the US site.

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  Reply # 2027343 2-Jun-2018 08:34
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mattwnz:

 

I can understand why these overseas companies would do this. The hassle of all the red tape would be a nightmare I think.

 

 

Adding an automated calculation that says "tax = purchase price x GST + duty + customs charges" is a nightmare of red tape?

 

This is a trivial exercise for these guys, and in fact in the case of NZ it is actually reducing complexity as they would do it for all purchases, not the ones over the diminis threshold.

 

This is about power not about complexity.


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  Reply # 2027346 2-Jun-2018 09:00
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Handle9:

 

mattwnz:

 

I can understand why these overseas companies would do this. The hassle of all the red tape would be a nightmare I think.

 

 

Adding an automated calculation that says "tax = purchase price x GST + duty + customs charges" is a nightmare of red tape?

 

This is a trivial exercise for these guys, and in fact in the case of NZ it is actually reducing complexity as they would do it for all purchases, not the ones over the diminis threshold.

 

This is about power not about complexity.

 

 

That my opinion as well. The Oz Amazon store is apparently not great value. The bulk competitive advantage has been eroded by GST to a degree. Also the running cost of the local store. If they removed the Oz store and collected GST then everyone is happy. 


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  Reply # 2027348 2-Jun-2018 09:02
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Handle9: Adding an automated calculation that says "tax = purchase price x GST + duty + customs charges" is a nightmare of red tape?

 

Doesn't Australia have convoluted rules around GST where some items have it, some don't, and I think even some are at a different rate? That would mean that each international seller would need to maintain a database of the GST rate for each item they sell, just in case someone from Australia buys it.


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  Reply # 2027349 2-Jun-2018 09:04
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Wiggum: Just checked some amazon invoices of mine. No GST or duty charged for my NZ orders to Nz address. Cant find a single one. Anybody else here been charged GST/duty by Amazon?

 

Amazon charge me 15% tax on my Kindle ebook orders. Since they do it on those it shouldnt be too hard on all goods for NZ


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  Reply # 2027351 2-Jun-2018 09:10
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Behodar:

Handle9: Adding an automated calculation that says "tax = purchase price x GST + duty + customs charges" is a nightmare of red tape?


Doesn't Australia have convoluted rules around GST where some items have it, some don't, and I think even some are at a different rate? That would mean that each international seller would need to maintain a database of the GST rate for each item they sell, just in case someone from Australia buys it.



The platform (ie Amazon) handles the tax side now and doesn’t seem to have a problem with different jurisdictions in the us or the uks vat rules.

Amazon can do this with minimal impact on their business, they just don’t want to as it will make them less competitive.

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  Reply # 2027352 2-Jun-2018 09:27
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Bung:
sbiddle:

 

You are of course aware of the de minimis threshold for GST / duty collection? Obviously any orders that doesn't exceed the $50 de minimis value won't have this charged nor the IETF.



De minimus changed to $60 last time get went up. That kept the total for something without duty at $400.

When we were encouraged to switch Amazon login to the AU site there was to be no problem switching back. Amazon only operate their gift cards on the US site.

 

Oops my bad I meant $60, not $50 as a result of the GST increase to 15% a few years ago.

 

 


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  Reply # 2027368 2-Jun-2018 09:37
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Handle9: The platform (ie Amazon) handles the tax side now and doesn’t seem to have a problem with different jurisdictions in the us or the uks vat rules.

Amazon can do this with minimal impact on their business, they just don’t want to as it will make them less competitive.

 

Yes, but those are their "home" countries, and the vast majority of purchases will be from locals. Amazon US has the US tax rules, like any other US retailer. Amazon UK has the UK rules. Presumably if a UK resident buys from Amazon US, Amazon US doesn't collect the VAT (I think I've heard that it gets stopped at the border with VAT payable at that point).

 

But since Australia wants Australian tax paid, it means that Amazon US, UK, Japan, France, Germany etc would all need to find/store the Australian GST details against each product. That's a huge amount of work for "just in case" someone from Australia buys something.

 

While the software supports it, I don't agree that it's minimal impact.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not Amazon :)


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