The dumbing down of services via the internet

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#2034872 13-Jun-2018 10:31

Benjip:

nunz:

Oh you poor dear. Imagine not ever having the joy of having real money, with a positive balance instead of debt, and actually getting to look at a book and add up lines of numbers.

More like oh you poor dear, having to manually manage a "cash book" in 2018. Let the bank software do its thing – that's what it's there for.

Or should we go back to a cash-only society so you can literally count your physical dollars & cents every day?

Some of the things you've mentioned have merit but they just sound like poor product design (fingerprint scanners not working – you could try Face ID instead and not have to worry), rather than a "dumbing down" of technology.

I for one am loving the new age of subscription-based services (eg. Adobe CC and Office 365), meaning everyone is on a level playing field and I don't have to back-save my files when sharing with other users.

Lets discuss office 365. I have it. I hate it. They keep changing functionality.

E.g. suddenly my emails are in focused and not focused tabs. Except there is a discrepancy between focused and unfocused where emails that are not considered focused don't show up in the unfocused - effectively rendering them invisible. As the computer is too dumb to know what is important - that means I loose time, effort and money fixing stuff. My inbox has rules i set up. I do not want some dumb ass computer with an iq lower than a slug (literally) trying to double guess me.

Latest powerpoint. Dumbed down. Today I need to do a presentation from a laptop, in a site with no internet connection. Powerpoint viewer is no longer available - now you need an app for ios, windows 10 app or google / android. MS answer is to run it from the PowerPoint viewer online. Well DUH!!! No internet connection. Thank goodness for open office. it rendered it for me off line.

Dont even get me started on pivot tables online. Or should I say lack of tables online.

******

Face recognition - doesn't work . 'Always on' via face recognition = failure. Ask HP what happened when they did face recognition. They got slapped for racism as black faces weren't recognizable (lack of contrast or something like that)

****

As for software doing its thing. Cashbook Complete can import in QIF format, run rules and balance accounts after setting them into categories. Except now it cant balance as letting the bank do its thing means it doesn't balance as the banks are too dumb to always give an accurate balance. I think you missed the point of the rant.

***

I remember the days before plug and pray, before AI(sic) when you owned your software and OS, when you could decide not to do updates, when the OS didn't reinstall dumb ass games and live tiles that shag your network into a pile of slug like unresponsiveness. I remember when humans were not subject to so much doo gooder, style driven , protect you from your-selfism - when it was considered we had talent and common sense.

You poor dears live in a dumb ass world:

Fruit is not as good - all the good stuff goes overseas and we are left with crud that used be considered fit for juicing only.
We lived in a world where cows milk had cream on top of it - and tasted fabulous, where kids could ride safely on the road and spent their weekeneds fishing, hunting eels, blowing stuff up, building forts, climbing trees.
In todays modern society Edmund Hillary would never have climbed Everest. I remember fresh bread, smelling of yeast that we bought home from the dairy - and then got in trouble coz we had hollowed it out eating the soft white bread from the inside.
I remember sling shots, firecrackers, sky rockets, skinned knees, building your own flying fox, chucking rocks, building rafts, boiled sweets (gobstoppers, acid drops, black balls, raspberry drops). I remember so much my kids will never have. And it is the simple stuff we should still have except we are losing control of our own society and self reliance.

Cloud services suck creativity - killing innovation and selling out cheaply. Cheapism is hitting all levels of society. eg I remember buying tools that I'll give to my grand kids - but cant get as Bunnings/ mitre10, Placemakers are forced to into cut price competitive practices.

Even KFC is not as good - its missing flavour and the potato has a new recipie / base product they use. The bread didn't used to be white carbohydrate muck but actually tasty with texture.

Open your eyes Neo. The world you live in has blinded you. You are a slave

nunz

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#2034875 13-Jun-2018 10:34

mudguard:

I'm not sure I've ever noticed a discrepancy between pending transactions and the actual balance being incorrect. I don't have any desire to go 30 years back in time either. The only time I see a pending transaction is when I've filled up at say Gull and it charges $150, then it drops off to the correct amount a few days later. I see it as the price to pay (temporarily) to fill up and avoid people queuing to get coffee. Or if I've purchased something overseas.

If there is a discrepancy then it should be fairly straight forward to reconcile, put it in writing and email it in and ask. Otherwise change banks.

Is the finger print reader compulsory on your phone? I can't install alternate apps on my work phone, so at least that's a bonus for you. The native contact app on my personal phone, an LG has groups. I rarely send text messages so I don't have the need, but it can be done.

Discrepancy occurs as Westpac puts invisible transactions into the ledger balance. you have to wait up to 5 days to figure out what has gone wrong.

I've tried other banks - we are in a world of bad service, I don't care-ism. We aren't clients, we are a number generating income who have as much cost cutting applied to it as possible to increase profit.

gbwelly

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#2035896 13-Jun-2018 11:16

This thread just gets more and more entertaining. The rose tinted glasses are well and truly being worn!

Senecio

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#2035905 13-Jun-2018 11:28

The conveniences of cloud services far outweigh your perceived negatives. I'm happy to forgo the notion of the good years for today and tomorrow thanks.

Benjip

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#2035915 13-Jun-2018 11:51

nunz:

Latest powerpoint. Dumbed down. Today I need to do a presentation from a laptop, in a site with no internet connection. Powerpoint viewer is no longer available - now you need an app for ios, windows 10 app or google / android. MS answer is to run it from the PowerPoint viewer online. Well DUH!!! No internet connection. Thank goodness for open office. it rendered it for me off line.

Dont even get me started on pivot tables online. Or should I say lack of tables online.

******

Face recognition - doesn't work . 'Always on' via face recognition = failure. Ask HP what happened when they did face recognition. They got slapped for racism as black faces weren't recognizable (lack of contrast or something like that)

****

I'm not gonna bother replying to the "back in my day" rant about skyrockets and KFC, but I will reply to the items quoted above as I have actual experience with them.

You do realise that Office 365 lets you download actual, real software for Windows and Mac, right? I have Word, Excel, OneNote, and Powerpoint, and they all work perfectly offline (on Mac). So I'm not quite sure why you had an issue using those offline. Pivot tables? They're definitely in Excel on my Mac.

And "face recognition - doesn't work" – well I must be the only one in the world (lucky me!) who has a perfectly functioning iPhone X with Face ID. Black faces not being recognisable? That's obviously just awful hardware/software from HP – Apple uses an African American dude on their Face ID marketing materials, so I imagine there are no issues there.

It sounds to me like you are just having issues moving with the times (or you're refusing to). Sorry if it upsets you but things aren't going to slow down any time soon, in fact it's the opposite. As an example, in most areas of the US you can now even get cars on subscription – pay your $2k per month and you can grab/swap a new Porsche of your choosing whenever you feel like it. You'll probably say that's a ridiculous idea because "back in your day" you'd pony up to the dealership with a bag full of notes and coins and pay outright for your new car.

MileHighKiwi

687 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2035916 13-Jun-2018 11:52

I still don't know what a 'cash book' is! Do you carry cash and manually record all transactions on paper? maybe I'm oblivious to many of the ills you mention, but personally I don't find managing my finances to be that difficult. My bank (BNZ) includes pending transactions in my available balance.

Rikkitic

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#2035922 13-Jun-2018 12:18

I have a privileged life. As a pensioner with few needs I have been able to largely withdraw from many aspects of the modern world. I don’t need Internet banking so don’t bother with it. A debit card covers my modest on-line purchases so no credit card required. I once glanced at Facebook and Twitter because I like to keep informed about developments but quickly dumped them because they did not add any value to my life (email is perfectly adequate for my communications with others). I have never felt the need for a cell phone of any kind (I do see their value for others). I have a javascript switch on my browser (one of the most useful extensions ever) to turn off all the pop-up BS and videos when I just want to read something undisturbed on a web page. I have taken some trouble to decide what adds value to my life and what is just a nuisance, and I have very little patience for nuisance.

I realise modern life makes it impossible for most people to make the kinds of choices I have. I also realise that most people probably wouldn’t want to. I am not a Luddite. I appreciate technology and I try to stay informed. I just don’t like all the dumb crap that comes with it so I try to erect barriers where I can. It works pretty well for me.

Which is not to say I am immune from the dumbed down problem. I hate YouTube videos and all the mumbling nasal-voiced adolescents who think this is a good way of communicating information, even when six lines of text would do the job much more effectively with much less wasted time being forced to listen to awful background techno music. As soon as a video starts with ‘Hi guys, how ya doing?’ I kill it unless there is absolutely no alternative to getting the information I need. Videos, along with textspeak, are a new form of illiteracy. According to a recent study, IQ is dropping by about nine points between each generation as a result of modern device usage.

I hate the stupid assumptions web sites make about me because of something I click on. Apart from anything else, they are always wrong. The most idiotically fundamental of these is the brainless notion that because you have just purchased one of something, you want to see endless advertisements for dozens more of the same thing. What imbecile thought that one up?

Software also makes assumptions. These can also be pretty stupid sometimes. That is not a big problem when they are just suggestions. It is when there is no possibility to ignore them.

I have sometimes posted on Geekzone about frustrations I have encountered with certain hardware and software. I often get jumped on for this. A recent example is my complaint that the new Nvidia Shield comes with a remote that does not support mouse functions, which makes it incompatible with many apps that would otherwise work fine (forcing me to use multiple remotes instead of just the one). People seem to think I am being unreasonable for complaining about this. Yet not having that functionality reduces the usefulness of the device, while having it would not detract from anything since no-one would be forced to use it. All that is achieved by this policy is reduced choice. That seems pretty dumbed-down to me.

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

jnimmo

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#2035930 13-Jun-2018 12:50

Surely Westpac let you download a PDF statement for a period which will still have the running balances on it?

I don't understand why banks don't necessarily show pending transactions above the finalised transactions, but if I ever want to do a proper reconciliation that's what I use a statement for which has a closing balance.

Senecio

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#2035944 13-Jun-2018 13:27

I don't remember the last time I looked at my bank statement. I wave my phone over a device next to the register and enjoy my smashed avocado brunch with a latte happy in the knowledge that there is more going in than coming out.

That's all I need to care about.

Paparangi

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#2035997 13-Jun-2018 15:42

I'm still confused what you mean by a cashbook, even after reading this whole thread. A quick google seems to refer to businesses using them, are you running a business? I might just be a silly young person - but I've never seen or heard of one before. Surely your online banking would do the same thing? The available amount is how much you have available to spend, and the 'ledger balance' is how much you have excluding those yet to be processed for whatever reason. ASB puts it nicely:

"Your account balance is the total in your account. If you see “OD” (meaning Overdraft) in front of the amount, this is the amount you owe. Available balance represents the funds you are able to withdraw, transfer and use. For transactions or savings accounts, the available balance may be more than the account balance because of an arranged overdraft. The available balance may also be less because of un-cleared funds, such as a cheque."

Why would you record all your transactions, when they would all show on your statement anyway - seems like extra work for no reason.

A lot of the other things you complain about also have other alternatives - you do have choice despite saying you don't (possibly even more choice than before). You can turn off focused inbox. You can download another app to send group texts. You complain about more button pushes - it might be more work for you, but it's more choice for someone else. I also highly doubt your cloud services will say hello anytime soon - but we still have bank branches with actual humans.

Cash is on it's way out - I think you'd find many people finding it just as convenient as digital methods, but you still have the choice.

You have also talked about books, comparing them to Facebook. What a strange comparison. A better comparison would be a Kindle. You now can get 1000s of books and carry them in your bag, it even has ink like a book. Once again even more options for you to choose from!

I would argue we live in a time with even more choice than ever before - we have more choices in nearly every single aspect of our lives.

mudguard

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#2036028 13-Jun-2018 16:27

I still think you get out of things what you put in. My parents are in their mid sixties and have recently embraced internet banking, one has an iPhone 5S, the other a Lumia 1020 which I'm trying to wean her off!

Once I'd shown Dad how to use online banking, he remarked, why would he ever need to go to a bank again? The last time I went to a branch was when I thought I'd lost my wallet and had to get an eftpos card. As for computer software, well it's the nature of it, it changes. I've spent the last month trying to use Premiere Pro from scratch. I realise it's probably not the most beginner friendly editing software to start, but it's really only the last week that I've felt some things are becoming intuitive. It drives me nuts that I have to google almost every single action (and I'm no fan of YouTube tutorials either, I'd rather read, but I have YouTube Red so no ads at least).

I've no desire to go back to the old days, maybe house prices and the ability for one parent to earn enough to pay off a mortgage and have kids. But that's it. Does the OP have a desire to go back a generation from his? A pair of World Wars, a Depression?

KiwiSurfer

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#2036063 13-Jun-2018 17:41

What I don't understand is why this is news? I've banked with all the major banks and they all do it more or less the way described by the OP. They generally don't post transactions to the ledger immediately (so the ledger balance usually lags the actual balance by a day or so) causing the difference between the ledger and available balance. Add or subtract things like holds, disputed transactions and the like and that can affect the available balance temporarily. And it's been like that for the last 15+ years across multiple banks and credit unions.

What is different now is we now have real time access to our actual available balance and some banks even let you have a look at the pending transactions before they are eventually posted to the ledger.

In the old days all we had access to was the transactions posted to the ledger, and even then only once a month.

I think what we have now is a massive improvement over the old days. We can now see in real time all ledger transactions up until the last batch process (or even right up to the current second with certain banks) and also some banks offer the option to see pending transactions. Can't see how that is equivalent in any way to 'dumbing down'. If anything the system is giving us even more information rather than giving us 'dumbed down' info.

Just my 2cents. I agree sometimes progress seems like a step backwards but not in this case IMHO.

nunz

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#2038364 15-Jun-2018 15:51

gbwelly:

This thread just gets more and more entertaining. The rose tinted glasses are well and truly being worn!

nope - yesterday sucked as well - however there is so much we are losing but we dont stop to see if it is worth the cost. Lemmings running towards tomorrow - too dumb to see the cliff.

nunz

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#2038375 15-Jun-2018 16:15

Senecio:

The conveniences of cloud services far outweigh your perceived negatives. I'm happy to forgo the notion of the good years for today and tomorrow thanks.

Those who are prepared to sacrifice freedom for convenience - deserve neither. They are sheep on the slaughter block of commercial imperialism - and we all know the empire prefers slaves to free-men.

Lenin / Marx claimed religion was the opiate of the masses. Lately I have to seriously wonder if that should be entertainment and convenience are the opiate of the masses.

The idea that every client wants the same experience and needs the same functionality is ludicrous. it is the foundational process of cloud services to offer the bell curve normative range of functionality and then force all users to use the same interface, workflow and systems. That only works if you sacrifice important functionality. it forces us to accept good enough - not strive for awesome. We become clones.

Every business is different. Every business needs different stuff. Innovation and diversity are good - not bad. They are safer than chopping off all the edges to achieve a homogenous cloud service.

'Oh but you can tailor cloud services to your needs'. bollocks. You can tweak the edges but not make substantive changes - which leads to bosses going - it will have to do. That sucks!!

Using cloud services you sacrifice your ability to say no to changes that don't work for you. They may work for someone else but you are not someone else. You are you. But with cloud services you are now being made to be just like everyone else.

Cloud services are only convenient when they work When they don't they are down right dangerous. you have no control over who sees what, when and why. you cannot save your own data, you cannot talk to someone and get help. Even if you find a bug they are unlikely to fix it - as it would impact too many others - but they will possibly put it in the work flow for sometime in the future.

Cloud services are big buggy behemoths - lumbering giants that are extinct before they know it - they are dead men walking. When someone like google, Microsoft or Amazon fail to keep up one of their major products (like office) leaving a virtual monopoly to others - then watch the prices rise and there will be nothing you can do about it. Google maps - excellent example. Money please.

I've had quite a number of cloud services change their prices. 40% - 200% is not unusual and often what happens is you pay more, get less but you can get back what you had by paying ever more. That's why i don't use logmein any more. It was an almost 10 fold increase in costs and we lost important functionality. They also removed their version of cloud storage. The agony of reworking all the backups and file synchronisation from clients systems was terrible. It ended up costing more than any money we saved.

I'm delighted to see clearOS offering a new peer driven file storage offering, allowing you to sell spare storage space to the virtual cloud. it uses the best of the internet connectivity while allowing you control - and none of it needing to be controlled by big corporate. Use it like you want.

Rikkitic

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#2038378 15-Jun-2018 16:20

nunz:

The idea that every client wants the same experience and needs the same functionality is ludicrous.

THIS!

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

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