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debo
235 posts

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  #2047878 2-Jul-2018 21:04
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eph:

 

Rikkitic:

 

eph:

 

Are you seriously burning plastic rubbish??? You know that's the worse - releasing toxic fumes and other really dangerous stuff which then gets back into the soil and water. I hope you at least wear a gas mask when you burn that stuff.

 

 

What would you do with it? It can't be recycled and I doubt the landfill is a better solution. We are surrounded by open land, no near neighbours and what we burn is mostly paper. The plastic bag doesn't make up much of it. If you have a better solution, please don't keep it to yourself.

 

 

Yes, landfilling plastic is better solution than burning it (in your backyard, not in specialised facility).

 

If you’re referring to burning your own plastics out back, then heavens, get thee to a landfill. Burn barrels and other backyard incineration methods release terrible, toxic smoke packed with dangerous chemicals, and plastics produce some of the worst offenders. Among them: dioxins and furans (hormone-disrupting, cancer-causing substances that build up in water, soil, crops, and our own bodies) and styrene gas (which damages the nervous system). This sort of thing is dangerous not only to you, the burner, but to your neighbors. Much better to sequester your plastics in a landfill — if those are your only two options.

 

Came from here but if you just google it there is lost of other sources available.

 

 

How is one going to get to the land fill? By burning fossil fuels?  I think you are replacing one problem with another bigger one. 

 

They had a couple of brain dead greenies on TV a couple of years ago.  They were going "zero waste".  They believed that driving around different shops to get products with no plastic packaging was good for the environment. They saved a few grams of packaging but burnt a few thousand grams of petrol doing so.  1 step forward, 1000 steps backwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 


mattwnz
16857 posts

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  #2047884 2-Jul-2018 21:08
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IMO this whole plastic bag is a smoke screen for the real problem, and just gives the false impression that not using plastic bags with our groceries is going to cut down on plastic use significantly. But the big problem is actual  packaging. Almost all packaging in the supermarket has plastic in some form. Even paper labels have plastic coatings.

 

Why supermarkets don't move to cornstarch bags which really are biodegradable, I do't know. Well probably because they are more expensive.  But even these reusable bags have plastic, and they must be disposed of eventually.


 
 
 
 


Geektastic
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  #2047885 2-Jul-2018 21:14
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mattwnz:

IMO this whole plastic bag is a smoke screen for the real problem, and just gives the false impression that not using plastic bags with our groceries is going to cut down on plastic use significantly. But the big problem is actual  packaging. Almost all packaging in the supermarket has plastic in some form. Even paper labels have plastic coatings.


Why supermarkets don't move to cornstarch bags which really are biodegradable, I do't know. Well probably because they are more expensive.  But even these reusable bags have plastic, and they must be disposed of eventually.



I agree. The whole bag thing is a small red fish that can be kippered.





Rikkitic
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  #2047886 2-Jul-2018 21:15
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eph:

 

Yes, landfilling plastic is better solution than burning it (in your backyard, not in specialised facility).

 

If you’re referring to burning your own plastics out back, then heavens, get thee to a landfill. Burn barrels and other backyard incineration methods release terrible, toxic smoke packed with dangerous chemicals, and plastics produce some of the worst offenders. Among them: dioxins and furans (hormone-disrupting, cancer-causing substances that build up in water, soil, crops, and our own bodies) and styrene gas (which damages the nervous system). This sort of thing is dangerous not only to you, the burner, but to your neighbors. Much better to sequester your plastics in a landfill — if those are your only two options.

 

Came from here but if you just google it there is lost of other sources available.

 

 

OK, thanks for the links. I will look into this further. I would like to know more. It is not like we are burning huge chunks of plastic or standing downwind to inhale the fumes or doing anything likely to affect our neighbours, who are a long way away. I don't doubt toxic chemicals are produced, but it is a matter of degree. 

 

The damage done by plastic waste in the oceans is now well-known. If it is also so damaging to dispose of plastics by burning or burying or almost any other normal means, then why the hell have companies been allowed to produce such dangerous substances for so long, and to use them so widely for mainly frivolous packaging purposes that aren't even necessary? Why are there not plastic refuse collection points in supermarkets for safe disposal, or public bins operated by the Council? 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


debo
235 posts

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  #2047899 2-Jul-2018 21:59
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mattwnz:

 

IMO this whole plastic bag is a smoke screen for the real problem, and just gives the false impression that not using plastic bags with our groceries is going to cut down on plastic use significantly. But the big problem is actual  packaging. Almost all packaging in the supermarket has plastic in some form. Even paper labels have plastic coatings.

 

Why supermarkets don't move to cornstarch bags which really are biodegradable, I do't know. Well probably because they are more expensive.  But even these reusable bags have plastic, and they must be disposed of eventually.

 

 

 

 

The whole plastic bag thing is a genius piece of marketing by the petrochemical multinationals. Get greenies, for free, to campaign against 5 gram plastic bags in favor of 50 gram plastic bags.  Then, sell the public 10 gram ultra tough bin liners.  Then, get the greenies to introduce legislation to force everybody to comply.  Brilliant!


Lastman
286 posts

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  #2047900 2-Jul-2018 22:00
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I’m rural and take the rubbish to the tip. Burning it releases the worst by-products, Dioxins, PCBs as stated. Neighbours often burn rubbish and it pees me off.

Almost all rural people take regular trips to town for supplies so there is no excuse.

Have used “green” bags for many years, it’s just a habit to get into. I prefer reusable as they stand up nicely to put the groceries in and a cooler keeps things cold.

It is a small percentage of the plastic waste but it iis one area where the waste can be eliminated so easily.




Geektastic
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  #2047903 2-Jul-2018 22:13
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My current favourite option to save plastic is Weetbix.

 

 

 

The more or less identical UK product, Weetabix, has the biscuits boxed in stacks, wrapped in paper. The Australia/NZ version has them in a plastic bag. So that is one plastic bag in every box of Weetbix sold anywhere.

 

Surely, since the technology already exists to wrap the biscuits in paper, it would be an obvious (and popular) change to make?






 
 
 
 


debo
235 posts

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  #2047928 2-Jul-2018 23:14
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For a giggle, I just emailed a question to The Panel on National Radio.  Hopefully it will get answered some day soon. 

 

My question:
Single use plastic seems to be everywhere in hospitals.  From surgical masks, syringes, blood test tubes, saline solution bags, blood bags, medicine containers, sterile packaging, band-aids. The list goes on and on.  What would happen to the operation of hospitals if the government implemented a complete ban on single use plastic?


Geektastic
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  #2047940 3-Jul-2018 00:11
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debo:

 

For a giggle, I just emailed a question to The Panel on National Radio.  Hopefully it will get answered some day soon. 

 

My question:
Single use plastic seems to be everywhere in hospitals.  From surgical masks, syringes, blood test tubes, saline solution bags, blood bags, medicine containers, sterile packaging, band-aids. The list goes on and on.  What would happen to the operation of hospitals if the government implemented a complete ban on single use plastic?

 

 

 

 

Oh god. We will be back to those big glass reusable syringes with needles being sharpened between patients...!!

 

As one who has an awful lot of needles stuck in him during the course of a year, I would be voting against that for sure!






Fred99
11140 posts

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  #2047972 3-Jul-2018 07:52
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debo:

 

For a giggle, I just emailed a question to The Panel on National Radio.  Hopefully it will get answered some day soon. 

 

My question:
Single use plastic seems to be everywhere in hospitals.  From surgical masks, syringes, blood test tubes, saline solution bags, blood bags, medicine containers, sterile packaging, band-aids. The list goes on and on.  What would happen to the operation of hospitals if the government implemented a complete ban on single use plastic?

 

 

That's not "a giggle". Seems like pointless and rather thoughtless trolling to me.  

 

A hospital is certainly a place where single use plastics are justified, and would be disposed of responsibly.

 

The plastic ties on bread bags, clips that hold pair of socks together for display on racks, blister packs for small cheap items, soy sauce containers with a teaspoon full of contents, the plastic forks for people who can't use chopsticks - all that kind of irresponsible thoughtless crap - that's the problem.

 

 

 

 


Fred99
11140 posts

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  #2047976 3-Jul-2018 08:01
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Remains of an albatross chick showing contents of its crop.

 

There's a 1 1/2 hour movie here: https://www.albatrossthefilm.com/watch-albatross


debo
235 posts

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  #2047977 3-Jul-2018 08:26
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Fred99:

 

 

 

That's not "a giggle". Seems like pointless and rather thoughtless trolling to me.  

 

A hospital is certainly a place where single use plastics are justified, and would be disposed of responsibly.

 

 

So burning plastic is now responsible? and you call me thoughtless.


MikeB4
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  #2048010 3-Jul-2018 08:28
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The plastic problem is not a giggle or some wacko green peace nonsense. It is a very serious issue that has dangerous ramifications for the planet. The foundation for our food chain is our oceans and we are destroying them. If you spend some time in boats you soon see the extent of the problem and that is only scratching the surface. 


MikeB4
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  #2048011 3-Jul-2018 08:29
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debo:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

That's not "a giggle". Seems like pointless and rather thoughtless trolling to me.  

 

A hospital is certainly a place where single use plastics are justified, and would be disposed of responsibly.

 

 

So burning plastic is now responsible? and you call me thoughtless.

 

 

Do you think the DHB just throws them in a 40 gallon bin out back and burns them while they have smoke?


Lastman
286 posts

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  #2048013 3-Jul-2018 08:35
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I think it’s going to take an industry solution ie retailers demanding all products have minimum packaging and packaging has an acceptable recycling path, a big research push from packaging suppliers (Grahame Hart, how many superyacths do you need?), government regulation if necesary.

Another possible solution, having previously bagged burning, is the commercial, filtered incinerators European style, say one for Auckland putting the energy back into the grid? Not sure how clean they have proven to be.

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