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MikeB4
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  #2048452 3-Jul-2018 17:18
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@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun smile


dafman
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  #2048463 3-Jul-2018 17:31
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MikeAqua:

 

But I agree there are a lot of catergories where you simply can't avoid it.

 

 

Give me a disposable packaging example where plastic cannot be avoided?


 
 
 
 


SepticSceptic
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  #2048467 3-Jul-2018 17:32
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Lastman:

Another possible solution, having previously bagged burning, is the commercial, filtered incinerators European style, say one for Auckland putting the energy back into the grid? Not sure how clean they have proven to be.

 

Filtered incineration still requires disposal of hazardous chemicals.

 

Plasma incineration, OTOH, breaks down everything to its elemental compounds, including ewaste, hazardous chemical waste, etc

 

https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/please-listen-to-how-plasma-waste-converters-work.htm

 

And, from http://plasmawastedisposal.com/

 





My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


Geektastic
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  #2048468 3-Jul-2018 17:35
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MikeB4:

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun smile



Yeah....... Nah!

I well recall the first time we added lemonade flavour to the water we had fizzed and neglected to take the instruction to "add slowly" as a serious one....!





MikeB4
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  #2048472 3-Jul-2018 17:42
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:

 

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun smile

 



Yeah....... Nah!

 

 

 

I had a moment of madness  a few years back and tried it, the mess was impressive 


debo
235 posts

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  #2048509 3-Jul-2018 19:11
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I don't think there is a problem with plastic. As Fred99 points out, the alternatives have a bigger impact on the environment. The problem is most plastics are not bio-degradable.  The compulsory use of Oxo-biodegradable plastics would solve the 'liter' & 'ocean' problems. They cost similar to standard plastics and are compatible with existing machinery.  Unfortunately, greenies tend to hate bio-degradable plastics because they are not compostable.  As such, I expect there will be no change in the future (except the banning of light weight plastic bags).

 

There are two distinct types of biodegradable plastic. They are:

 

 :“Compostable” - (also loosely known as “bio-based plastics” or “bioplastics”) and designed according to EN13432 or ASTM D6400 to biodegrade in the
special conditions found in industrial composting or anaerobic digestion, and

 


: Oxo-biodegradable - made from polymers such as PE and PP, containing extra ingredients (which do not include “heavy-metals”) designed according
to ASTM D6954 or BS8472 to degrade and biodegrade in the open environment leaving no harmful residues.


Lastman
285 posts

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  #2048534 3-Jul-2018 20:06
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Fred99:

Lastman:
Fred99:


- Paper – tends to be similar from CO2 perspective, but would use 43 times to be even on all environmental factors;




The second statistic, I think that’s hot air out someones backside.


And that probably summarises the problem best.


An uninformed "throwaway" one line comment on a forum is used to discredit scientific research.


 



The original or common reusable supermarket bag is some type of composite/plastic so the figures you give from the study are 5 for CO2 and 45 all environment so I’ve still saved over 900 bags worth by my small contribution over the years. Bags that have not entered the environment.

Imagine that multiplied over the whole population.





The study you quote is not scientific research, as far as I can see, it is a government report prepared by government officials. A lot of assumptions are made and relys on data from other sources.

 
 
 
 


MikeAqua

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  #2048711 4-Jul-2018 08:33
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dafman:

 

MikeAqua:

 

But I agree there are a lot of catergories where you simply can't avoid it.

 

 

Give me a disposable packaging example where plastic cannot be avoided?

 

 

Bleach. Cheese. Shampoo.  Yoghurt. Cereal. 

 

Note I said "simply" can't avoid.





Mike


trig42
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  #2048714 4-Jul-2018 08:46
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MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:
MikeB4:

 

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun smile

 



Yeah....... Nah!

 

 

 

I had a moment of madness  a few years back and tried it, the mess was impressive 

 

 

We had someone stay in our house while we were away for a weekend once, and they obviously tried it.

 

There was evidence. Sticky evidence.


dafman
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  #2048720 4-Jul-2018 08:57
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Cheese wrapped and sealed in wax paper, cereal in a box (it used to be like this way back when) or you could put a wax paper bag inside the box as an option.

 

Yoghurt and bleach more difficult. However, where plastic cannot be avoided 'easily', legislation could mandate that a single type of recyclable plastic be used (not the proliferation of plastics types we have at present), with the manufacturers of plastic packaging bearing the cost of providing recycling bins at point of sale as well as the cost of removal and recycling.

 

Also, options for minimising plastic could be investigated. Shampoo could be sold in refill pouches, and/or minimum sizes introduced.

 

 


DaveB
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  #2048769 4-Jul-2018 09:49
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Plastic Roads?

 


MikeAqua

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  #2048777 4-Jul-2018 10:07
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dafman:

 

Cheese wrapped and sealed in wax paper, cereal in a box (it used to be like this way back when) or you could put a wax paper bag inside the box as an option.

 

 

If you are saying manufacturers could do those things I agree.  But they don't.  Cereal is in a plastic bag inside the box.  Cheese comes in plastic.

 

My comment was from a consumer perspective - i.e. choice available to consumers.  But I can see I didn't make that very clear.

 

 





Mike


marej
186 posts

Master Geek


  #2049055 4-Jul-2018 14:52

I did the countdown 'bag for life' exchange thing today.  Its a smaller bag they issue back in return.

 

If new world are doing paper in the fruit and veg dept, then that is good as that is genuinely single-use plastic.


deadlyllama
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  #2049096 4-Jul-2018 16:01
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I asked the local butcher yesterday and they're happy to put meat in Sistema boxes/etc if I bring them in.  There's one customer they already do that for.

 

But the supermarket model of lots of things on shelves in long-lasting individual packaging isn't compatible with "bring your own box."

 

The single use plastic thing is just a complete disaster.  The "biodegradable" bags don't biodegrade if you bury them.  My re-usable supermarket bags are chock full of plastic bags.  If you get those double packs of Griffins Chocolate Chippies, you get two plastic trays, individually wrapped, with a third bag encircling the lot!

 

As a previous poster mentioned - we need legislation requiring people who sell this stuff to take responsibility for recycling it.  Push the cost into the supply chain and watch the problem disappear overnight!


MikeAqua

6050 posts

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  #2049112 4-Jul-2018 16:29
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deadlyllama:

 

My re-usable supermarket bags are chock full of plastic bags.  If you get those double packs of Griffins Chocolate Chippies, you get two plastic trays, individually wrapped, with a third bag encircling the lot!

 

 

A lot of these 'soft plastics' are now recyclable at the supermarket.  But it would be better to eliminate them.

 

 

 

 





Mike


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