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kryptonjohn

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  #2049274 4-Jul-2018 21:18
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Trouble is, the underwater parts of the cave are narrow in places, so won't fit... They're seriously talking about leaving them there for months until the rain stops and the water recedes!

mudguard
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  #2049312 4-Jul-2018 22:28
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I think I read that the divers had to take their tanks off their backs to squeeze through some parts.

Rikkitic
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  #2049344 4-Jul-2018 22:40
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I haven't followed all the details but I know something from the reports I have read. My understanding, which I'm sure anyone who has ever been in a cave system will recognise, is that parts of the route are extremely tight, while other parts are fairly open with high ceilings. At the present water level, there would be places along the way where they could emerge and walk for a short distance. But the tight places are under water with no room to spare. Apparently you almost need to be a contortionist (or expert speleologist) to get through them. The mud reduces visibility to zero and you have to feel your way along. Even one of the British expert divers got stuck and had to be extracted by his mate. Anyone with claustrophobia or a kid who panicked could jam the passage and kill himself and the divers trying to help him through. And these are all kids who have never learned to swim. Even if they can be successfully taught to use the breathing masks, imagine being completely submerged where you can't see or communicate and never having learned to swim. I'm not sure how I would do in that situation even now. I certainly don't know how I would have handled it when I was 11.

 

Apparently it takes about 20 minutes to get through. That is a long time for anyone. It is a long time to be deaf, dumb, blind and crawling through muck. It is a lot to ask of anyone, but especially anyone so young.

 

At the same time, I think these kids have demonstrated amazing cool. They have already been cut off from the world for 10 days on a rocky ledge in total darkness with rising water and no way of knowing if anyone would find them. Yet they all seemed remarkably collected when the diver emerged. These are damned brave kids. I think they are absolutely heroic. Still, it would be asking a lot to bring them back through the flooded passageways. 

 

It is hard to know how they might cope with a prolonged stay, but at least they now have support and supplies. Remember, they just went 10 days without food on a damp rocky ledge in the pitch dark. My own feeling is that they won't be there for months, but it might be a week or two.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2049354 4-Jul-2018 23:07
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mudguard: I think I read that the divers had to take their tanks off their backs to squeeze through some parts.

 

create a long tube that is both to pull people and to give oxygen?





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2049392 5-Jul-2018 07:03
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kryptonjohn: Trouble is, the underwater parts of the cave are narrow in places, so won't fit... They're seriously talking about leaving them there for months until the rain stops and the water recedes!


They did think about it, but I don't think it's an option because if it can flood up so badly within hours, it can get a lot worse within hours too. Leaving them for months to me it's certain death.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2049393 5-Jul-2018 07:05
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Batman:

Out of adversity comes innovation. Someone is going to invent a simple and functional submarine to get them out. I can't see how else.



Some kind of whole body bag with a tube for breathing and pulling?




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


MikeAqua
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  #2049419 5-Jul-2018 09:14
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I got my PADI open water cert in 1989.  I've since added multiple other qualifications to that, including commercial diving and I would be very, very uncomfortable cave diving.  I'll go into a hole after a big cray, but that's my limit.

 

What's not clear to me is whether they will have to de-bottle and wriggle through tight spaces that are underwater or in 'dry' sections between sections of water.

 

I would say taking novices through very-tight underwater sections is a non-starter. 





Mike


linw
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  #2049420 5-Jul-2018 09:17
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Batman:
Batman:

 

Out of adversity comes innovation. Someone is going to invent a simple and functional submarine to get them out. I can't see how else.

 



Some kind of whole body bag with a tube for breathing and pulling?

 

Yes, I wonder if that would be feasible. With a cable on the rear end it could be pulled/guided back for the next one.

 

But what do we know!!


Wiggum
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  #2049422 5-Jul-2018 09:19
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MikeAqua:

 

I got my PADI open water cert in 1989.  I've since added multiple other qualifications to that, including commercial diving and I would be very, very uncomfortable cave diving.  I'll go into a hole after a big cray, but that's my limit.

 

What's not clear to me is whether they will have to de-bottle and wriggle through tight spaces that are underwater or in 'dry' sections between sections of water.

 

I would say taking novices through very-tight underwater sections is a non-starter. 

 

 

Your username now makes sense... cool


kryptonjohn

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  #2049426 5-Jul-2018 09:26
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MikeAqua:

 

I got my PADI open water cert in 1989.  I've since added multiple other qualifications to that, including commercial diving and I would be very, very uncomfortable cave diving.  I'll go into a hole after a big cray, but that's my limit.

 

What's not clear to me is whether they will have to de-bottle and wriggle through tight spaces that are underwater or in 'dry' sections between sections of water.

 

I would say taking novices through very-tight underwater sections is a non-starter. 

 

 

Heh, newbie! :-) Didn't even have PADI when I did my cert in '82 which was under the French CMAS system. :-\ Which incidentally is a bloody pain as it's impossible to get a re-print of my cert and when I go overseas on vacation I can't do any diving...

 

I've had horrible experiences getting wedged by my tank in tight spaces chasing crays... imagine being in dark muddy murk with a strong current, hundreds of meters to go, with no possibility of reversing out? Send sshivers down my spine thinking about it.

 

On the plus side, they will have a rope to follow so can just pull themselves along and presumably will have full face masks with comms so can be talked through it...\

 

[add] plus those kids all look as skinny as racing sardines so if the beefy military divers can fit through then the kids certainly won't get stuck like "a wedged bear in a great tightness" (google it for a smile of you don't know what I'm on about!)

 

 


Sounddude
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  #2049427 5-Jul-2018 09:29
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MikeAqua:

 

What's not clear to me is whether they will have to de-bottle and wriggle through tight spaces that are underwater or in 'dry' sections between sections of water.

 

 

 

 

The Media diagrams I have seen suggests that they have to de-bottle. But I never trust what I read in the media these days :-)


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  #2049580 5-Jul-2018 10:33
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So apparently, there is still a chance they could die. The confirmation will come in the next 24 hours.

 

Apparently, the conditions are worsening.

 

The distance to cover in the caves is nearly 2km.

 

Looks like the are considering an emergency evac if waters continue to rise, using face masks.

 

I do not envy anyone involved in this at any level. The potential for tragedy seems quite real still.

 

 

 

 


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  #2049582 5-Jul-2018 10:36
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Reading the story makes me feel sick and I would hate to be in that situation

 

John


networkn
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  #2049591 5-Jul-2018 10:44
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Having Claustraphobia and Asthma, a strong gag reflex which prevents me from snorkelling well let alone diving, I can't imagine the misery, but if I also couldn't swim....

 

Highly trained Navy Seals would be a decent counteractive thing.

 

I wonder if they sedate them?

 

 


kryptonjohn

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  #2049621 5-Jul-2018 11:16
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networkn:

 

I wonder if they sedate them?

 

 

Interesting idea. With scuba you have all sorts of blood chemistry/gas saturation things to be wary of that are affected by depth and duration and one can imagine that medication could seriously complicate things. But yeah - anxiety, panic attacks, hyperventilation etc all big risks.

 

 


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