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  Reply # 2050348 6-Jul-2018 10:45
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On second thought, probably no current in the sections of flooded cave.

 

Just getting stuck and equipment issues then.


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  Reply # 2050349 6-Jul-2018 10:47
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Batman:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Really? Far, far safer in my mind. You can't get lost for one thing. That would be of considerable comfort and reduce stress/anxiety to know you are on your way to freedom. For another it is something to pull along on which would reduce fatigue and assist with getting through tight spaces where you can't propel yourself with arms and leg kicks. A literal and figurative life line. Huge benefits.

 

  

 

 

2 things

 

Current.

 

These things are not your wave pool. They pull with forces that you cannot imagine. 

 

Obstacles.

 

You may have a rope, but if you get stuck or something is caught, it's very easy to die.

 

Equipment failure ... I'm sure everybody has thought of that so I won't mention it.

 

 

2 Things

 

If the force was that bad, then rescue would never have entered into it. The water is draining as well as being pumped out. I dont see any huge forces here. After Saturday rains yes there will be

 

New rope laid for purpose wont break. They will have collars where needed to stop chafing on corners.


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  Reply # 2050350 6-Jul-2018 10:50
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Batman:

 

On second thought, probably no current in the sections of flooded cave.

 

Just getting stuck and equipment issues then.

 

 

Easy then, leave them till October when the rains stop. they have been there 10 days, another 90 wont matter will it????  All options need to be looked at, as soon there wont be any options.  Let alone if the caves will have air space after all that rain. If it got to the point where staying now means they will drown, its already too late due to water forces with a lot of heavy rain


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  Reply # 2050351 6-Jul-2018 10:52
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I've said leaving them is certain death.

I'm also saying ropes do not make it any safer, otherwise they would have gotten them out at first light.

Think about it

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  Reply # 2050357 6-Jul-2018 10:59
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Batman: I've said leaving them is certain death.

I'm also saying ropes do not make it any safer, otherwise they would have gotten them out at first light.

Think about it

 

I think you need to think about it. Why was an option of leaving the there an option? The Govt and expert rescue team suggested that. As to a rope not adding to safety, I give up. I'll tell the experts to flag the rope.....


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  Reply # 2050358 6-Jul-2018 11:01
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If the rope is so safe why did they contemplate leaving them there for months?

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  Reply # 2050359 6-Jul-2018 11:02
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I think things are being said by people who don't really understand the situation. I am one of those people but I did read that the current flow is to the exit. This was an added difficulty for the divers going in, but should assist the kids coming out. There are plenty of other issues but I don't think current is one of them.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2050362 6-Jul-2018 11:06
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If there is current, and there is equipment, getting stuck is a real possibility regardless of which way the current pulls.

I note the boys will not get any equipment and will be given oxygen from the rescuers.

Getting stuck with no equipment and no current does happen, so if you have both it's very real, regardless of whether you have training or not.



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  Reply # 2050364 6-Jul-2018 11:08
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Batman:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Really? Far, far safer in my mind. You can't get lost for one thing. That would be of considerable comfort and reduce stress/anxiety to know you are on your way to freedom. For another it is something to pull along on which would reduce fatigue and assist with getting through tight spaces where you can't propel yourself with arms and leg kicks. A literal and figurative life line. Huge benefits.

 

  

 

 

2 things

 

Current.

 

These things are not your wave pool. They pull with forces that you cannot imagine. 

 

Obstacles.

 

You may have a rope, but if you get stuck or something is caught, it's very easy to die.

 

Equipment failure ... I'm sure everybody has thought of that so I won't mention it.

 

 

Wave pool? Current I cannot imagine? I think you are way overreaching there. 

 

If the current means you can't hold against with with the rope then you have *zero* chance of swimming or holding against it without a rope. Personally I wouldn't dive in a dark confined cave for all the tea in China but I have dived in tidal channels where the current was too strong to hold onto the rocks let alone swim against it. Current nearly strong enough to rip your mask off. What I can't imagine is what it would be like in the dark in a confined space.

 

Obstacles are a problem without ropes too as if you get off track you will encounter them. If the lead and trailing guides look after the rope then the kid has a far better chance of avoiding obstacles.

 

Not sure what you are getting at with regard to ropes and equipment failure. They're unlikely to fail. Far higher risk from complex equipment but everything will be checked.

 

They will keep these ropes taut and use them as a guide. It's not as if they're leaving loose coils of rope floating around the place.

 

Find your way through a dark, murky underwater cave, where you don't even know which way is up, with a rope to follow, or just do it blind? I sure know which I'd prefer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2050367 6-Jul-2018 11:11
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Batman: If the rope is so safe why did they contemplate leaving them there for months?

 

Who said the rope is "so safe"? What was said is the rope is much better than no rope. Why contemplate other options? Because every option needs to be tested. It seems you have decided to argumentatively dig your heels in here.

 

 




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  Reply # 2050372 6-Jul-2018 11:16
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Batman: I've said leaving them is certain death.

 

 

So you know more than the experts then, who are still openly considering this option?

 



I'm also saying ropes do not make it any safer, otherwise they would have gotten them out at first light.

 

 

Just because it is safer doesn't mean you know it is yet safe enough to proceed especially when you have still to test plans and complete training the kids and getting them fit and well enough.

 



Think about it

 

Am doing, as are the actual experts onsite. 

 

 


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  Reply # 2050376 6-Jul-2018 11:18
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Batman: If the rope is so safe why did they contemplate leaving them there for months?

 

heavy rainfall due Saturday

 

Malnutriton

 

Exhaustion

 

Its a risk

 

 

 

The middle two are important. You need to do what they are doing, looking at all the options, the pros and cons of everything

 

I also dont recall them or anyone saying a rope is so safe its obvious. Its one of many tools. Staying there 90 days is another tool, if they feel the cave they are on wont flood


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  Reply # 2050431 6-Jul-2018 12:35
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The only comment I will add is that it appears to take 5 Hours for a trained diver to get out!

 

My thoughts and prayers are with those poor boys.


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  Reply # 2050458 6-Jul-2018 14:03
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tdgeek:

 

Easy then, leave them till October when the rains stop. they have been there 10 days, another 90 wont matter will it????

 

 

That will play havoc with their soccer competition. Especially the home games.

 

[Edit] And their talk-show schedule.

 

 


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  Reply # 2050459 6-Jul-2018 14:07
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Rikkitic:

 

I think things are being said by people who don't really understand the situation. I am one of those people but I did read that the current flow is to the exit. This was an added difficulty for the divers going in, but should assist the kids coming out. There are plenty of other issues but I don't think current is one of them.

 

 

I suspect (IANACD) that current from behind would be more of a nuisance than from in front, tending to push your body past your hands, and hands off any handholds. You could go backwards, but then you can't see where you're going.

 

 


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