Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4
12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065169 30-Jul-2018 19:21
Send private message quote this post

Its a hard one. Make them increase bottom end wage rates, and they move offshore. Ironically they are here as offshore.

 

Allow them to keep wages low, so the employees stay employed and we encourage NZ as a low wage economy. 

 

Unemployment is low here, that encourages lower wages, thats basic supply and demand, so there is weight that these employees would rather have this low paid and low skilled employment than go to the workplace where jobs are hard to find. They can however keep looking around. Those that want a better paid job will find it in time, if they look around. Bit harder if they all get laid off at once if Sistema bug out.  


2323 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 913

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2065170 30-Jul-2018 19:23
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Batman:

 

sdav:

 

I like how opinions are it's either status quo or pack up and move the factory to China... It's like this country is void of a middle ground or improving conditions for people at the lower end. But I guess when you have countries around the world you can dump anything and everything in including cheap labour this will always be how people look at the issue...

 

 

I am just thinking about F&P and other similar companies that have done that.

 

You can't tell a private company what to do.

 

You can suggest, but can't make them do it.

 

 

Yep. F&P have exported the low value jobs to Mexico and Thailand. The high value jobs in design and engineering are retained and expanded in NZ. The latter is the future and is what we should be hoping for.


12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065179 30-Jul-2018 19:34
Send private message quote this post

kryptonjohn:

 

Batman:

 

sdav:

 

I like how opinions are it's either status quo or pack up and move the factory to China... It's like this country is void of a middle ground or improving conditions for people at the lower end. But I guess when you have countries around the world you can dump anything and everything in including cheap labour this will always be how people look at the issue...

 

 

I am just thinking about F&P and other similar companies that have done that.

 

You can't tell a private company what to do.

 

You can suggest, but can't make them do it.

 

 

Yep. F&P have exported the low value jobs to Mexico and Thailand. The high value jobs in design and engineering are retained and expanded in NZ. The latter is the future and is what we should be hoping for.

 

 

That makes a lot of sense. 


3680 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1191


  Reply # 2065219 30-Jul-2018 19:51
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

Unemployment is low here, that encourages lower wages, thats basic supply and demand,

 

 

Low unemployment actually causes wages to increase.  

 


3680 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1191


  Reply # 2065220 30-Jul-2018 19:52
Send private message quote this post

kryptonjohn:

 

Yep. F&P have exported the low value jobs to Mexico and Thailand. The high value jobs in design and engineering are retained and expanded in NZ. The latter is the future and is what we should be hoping for.

 

 

 

 

This is why I said our failure is in education. But, that takes generations to fix. 


12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065234 30-Jul-2018 19:58
Send private message quote this post

surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

Unemployment is low here, that encourages lower wages, thats basic supply and demand,

 

 

Low unemployment actually causes wages to increase.  

 

 

 

How so? Due to lack of available employees? Sounds fair, but while unemployment is low, its not nil, there are always people looking for jobs, so when there is a job, the employer holds the cards. One job, 20 applicants type of thing.




1263 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 622


  Reply # 2065236 30-Jul-2018 19:59
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Yep. F&P have exported the low value jobs to Mexico and Thailand. The high value jobs in design and engineering are retained and expanded in NZ. The latter is the future and is what we should be hoping for.



This was frequently touted in the US in the 1970's onward, as many corporations moved manufacturing and abroad.

The problem is high quality jobs sticking around is temporary at best. You end up with devastated cities like Detroit.

There's lots of engineering, science and math graduates in Indian and China.

Both Indian and China want the "whole enchilada": low-skill manufacturing jobs, and the high value design jobs.

Honestly I don't have the correct policies, except that good education is always key.

12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065238 30-Jul-2018 19:59
Send private message quote this post

Why is the Union wanting a living wage over 3 years when thats happening anyway by 2020? They do want 50c per hour more, but even so. 


gzt

10035 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1516


  Reply # 2065250 30-Jul-2018 20:01
Send private message quote this post

Sounds like there is not much choice on the shifts. 12 hour days are not much fun after a while.

12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065253 30-Jul-2018 20:04
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly: 

Honestly I don't have the correct policies, except that good education is always key.

 

Agree.

 

1. Use overseas cheaper labour to be successful.

 

2. Use Automation to reduce labour numbers

 

This is the way of the world. Education, which is not just the usual skills, also needs to include entrepreneurship, running small home businesses. Looking at what non automated jobs will exist in time, and skills and business skills there


2323 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 913

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2065257 30-Jul-2018 20:10
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly:
Yep. F&P have exported the low value jobs to Mexico and Thailand. The high value jobs in design and engineering are retained and expanded in NZ. The latter is the future and is what we should be hoping for.


This was frequently touted in the US in the 1970's onward, as many corporations moved manufacturing and abroad.

The problem is high quality jobs sticking around is temporary at best. You end up with devastated cities like Detroit.

There's lots of engineering, science and math graduates in Indian and China.

Both Indian and China want the "whole enchilada": low-skill manufacturing jobs, and the high value design jobs.

Honestly I don't have the correct policies, except that good education is always key.

 

But Detroit was going to be devastated whether the jobs were exported or not. Either those car companies automated production or exported the jobs or they go out of business. Either way, low skilled jobs were doomed. The failure of Detroit was not growing a skilled industry there (somehow). 


12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065259 30-Jul-2018 20:12
Send private message quote this post

kryptonjohn:

 

 

 

But Detroit was going to be devastated whether the jobs were exported or not. Either those car companies automated production or exported the jobs or they go out of business. Either way, low skilled jobs were doomed. The failure of Detroit was not growing a skilled industry there (somehow). 

 

 

The days of Ford, GM, Pontiac, and all the rest, went the way of Japanese and Korean cars. The good old days they were, but selling the car with a 1/4 acre bonnet stopped!


11705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3787

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2065263 30-Jul-2018 20:20
Send private message quote this post

Benjip:

Those saying "move production to China", are you aware that one of the major success factors of the Sistema brand (and its products) is that it's made in New Zealand (with our "clean green" image on the international stage)?


If it were to move to China, it'd just be another plastics brand competing against many others.



What's clean and green about plastic these days?





bmt

427 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 129


  Reply # 2065265 30-Jul-2018 20:23
Send private message quote this post

Were the Sistema employees moved to 60 hour a week contracts or did they know what they were signing up for?

 

If you're a low skilled assembly line drone doing the same thing over and over again, what exactly is making you deserve more than the minimum wage? Are you single handedly and visibly increasing productivity and production output to deserve an increase??


12778 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2293

Trusted

  Reply # 2065267 30-Jul-2018 20:25
Send private message quote this post

Geektastic:
Benjip:

 

Those saying "move production to China", are you aware that one of the major success factors of the Sistema brand (and its products) is that it's made in New Zealand (with our "clean green" image on the international stage)?

 

 

 

If it were to move to China, it'd just be another plastics brand competing against many others.

 



What's clean and green about plastic these days?

 

It could be. I dont know much about plastics, but if they made plastics that can be re melted and re used, they can make plastic in red bins illegal, must go to a recycle bin, and it does get re used here, I gather much recycle bin stuff doesnt actually get recycled. So use these clean green plastics as its illegal to dump them. Throw in a Singapore-like fine for dumping.  


1 | 2 | 3 | 4
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Intel introduces new NUC kits and NUC mini PCs
Posted 16-Aug-2018 11:03


The Warehouse leaps into the AI future with Google
Posted 15-Aug-2018 17:56


Targus set sights on enterprise and consumer growth in New Zealand
Posted 13-Aug-2018 13:47


Huawei to distribute nova 3i in New Zealand
Posted 9-Aug-2018 16:23


Home robot Vector to be available in New Zealand stores
Posted 9-Aug-2018 14:47


Panasonic announces new 2018 OLED TV line up
Posted 7-Aug-2018 16:38


Kordia completes first live 4K TV broadcast
Posted 1-Aug-2018 13:00


Schools get safer and smarter internet with Managed Network Upgrade
Posted 30-Jul-2018 20:01


DNC wants a safer .nz in the coming year
Posted 26-Jul-2018 16:08


Auldhouse becomes an AWS Authorised Training Delivery Partner in New Zealand
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:55


Rakuten Kobo launches Kobo Clara HD entry level reader
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:44


Kiwi team reaches semi-finals at the Microsoft Imagine Cup
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:38


KidsCan App to Help Kiwi Children in Need
Posted 26-Jul-2018 15:32


FUJIFILM announces new high-performance lenses
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:57


New FUJIFILM XF10 introduces square mode for Instagram sharing
Posted 24-Jul-2018 14:44



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.