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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 2072323 13-Aug-2018 08:06
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Folks, you can give your opinion here.

 

 

 

 

 

@davidcole:
SteveC83:

 

Great, what am I going to use to line my kitchen bins (Plastic bags fit perfectly) and pick up dog poop with now?  

 

Suppose I can go to the supermarket and buy......plastic bags!!! 

 



You can buy compostible ones. Or put down some newspaper, then some rubbish, then layers of paper over wet stuff. Yes you have to clean your bin, but doesn’t cost you much extra (cost of newspaper if you exceed your weekly community rag)

 

 

Based on the link I posted above it seems even the compostable ones are on the list to be banned.





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  Reply # 2072324 13-Aug-2018 08:07
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Davy: We lived for thousands of years without single-use plastic bags and bottles - I'm confident that we can survive without them.

 

 

Also for thousands of years rubbish was dumped on streets and sewers ran open on the sideways.





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  Reply # 2072327 13-Aug-2018 08:16
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There is a lot of people that re-use single use bags...but a lot probably that don't.  But I think packaging is a bigger problem.

 

There was a story on Country Calendar with Bostock chickens and Apples last night.....what do you think they were putting their apples in.....a bag FFS.  People need to start taking their items out of the packaging and leaving them at the supermarket, so the supermarket sees we don't want it, and start pressuring the manufacturers/distributors to leave out the packaging, rather than us taking it home, taking the items out, and bring any packaging back (if you recycle it at the supermarket), or dumping it.

 

   





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  Reply # 2072388 13-Aug-2018 08:39
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The alternatives to "single" use bags have environmental impacts outside of disposal:

 

http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2018/08/bag-ban.html

 

The lower part of table 6 in the consultation document cited is concerning. Paper and cotton bags are bad!

 

Seems a shame this government is going ahead with it's ban despite this consultation document only just coming out now. Not very "consultationy" are they? 

 

 


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  Reply # 2072389 13-Aug-2018 08:42
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mattwnz:

 

Glass containers. Or even stainless. Putting it in reusable containers is a possibility in the future, but health and safety would be a nightmare.

 

One thing that I don't think has been discussed, is whether plastic is really all that safe to be wrapped around food. Sure there is food safe stuff, but that means that other plastic wasn't food safe. I still think plastic tends to taint the taste of things such as water. We had some plastic water bottles, and when water had been in it for a while, it changed the boiling properties of that water when it was put in the kettle. Basically water boiled out of the nozzle,. We thought it was a faulty kettle, but getting that replaced didn't fix the problem.

 

 

It's not very practical for those using public transport. You need to carry all this stuff with you to the shops? And if you are shopping on the way home from work you have to take your collection of containers to work as well? 

 

I can see what's going to happen now. People will be forced to pay extra to purchase plastic bags when they shop. It's a bonanza for the supermarkets.

 

 


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  Reply # 2072409 13-Aug-2018 09:00
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Like what someone else said earlier.....banning these bags is a political diversion away from the economy at the moment. This is not a solution to anything. I want to see the Government sort out the recycling mess we are in first!!

 

Once we actually have a recycling system then start encouraging manufacturers to change the packaging etc.

 

Banning the bag wont stop anything. NZ is about to dump a years worth of plastics from recycling into land fills.

 

I have been told that a lot of "greenies" would cry if they actually understood how much of our recycling goes straight to land fill.


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  Reply # 2072410 13-Aug-2018 09:00
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The whole situation is a lot bigger than just a bag on plastic bags for packing goods in - bags which many people point out are very rarely single use anyway.

 

Product packaging is a far bigger issue and the amount of plastic packaging my supermarket visit had yesterday was on a far greater concern to me than the 2 bags I had to carry everything in.

 

The problem is dealing with packaging is complex and isn't a quick populist win like banning bags. Meat trays (some of which are recyclable) and wrapping meat are the only real way you can package meat in a supermarket. Likewise many people can bring up issues such as bags of apples and cut cabbages yet the packaging isn't just to help carry the product, it's also to help maintain the quality of the product. Are people willing to accept an inferior quality product just to save on packaging? That's clearly some people are willing to do, yet other won't be.

 

Packaging anything that requires being gas flushed seriously limits the options for packaging, and with so many products now relying on that there are very limited options to move away from plastics.

 

 


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  Reply # 2072417 13-Aug-2018 09:05
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Heh, so I guess my only option is to drag around a glass or metal tray to load my meat in every time I shop? That or the car seats/boot will take on a new fragrance from meat juice.

 

I'm glad this was well thought out.


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  Reply # 2072419 13-Aug-2018 09:08
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sbiddle:

 

The whole situation is a lot bigger than just a bag on plastic bags for packing goods in - bags which many people point out are very rarely single use anyway.

 

Product packaging is a far bigger issue and the amount of plastic packaging my supermarket visit had yesterday was on a far greater concern to me than the 2 bags I had to carry everything in.

 

The problem is dealing with packaging is complex and isn't a quick populist win like banning bags. Meat trays (some of which are recyclable) and wrapping meat are the only real way you can package meat in a supermarket. Likewise many people can bring up issues such as bags of apples and cut cabbages yet the packaging isn't just to help carry the product, it's also to help maintain the quality of the product. Are people willing to accept an inferior quality product just to save on packaging? That's clearly some people are willing to do, yet other won't be.

 

Packaging anything that requires being gas flushed seriously limits the options for packaging, and with so many products now relying on that there are very limited options to move away from plastics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So as much as I know you hate the markets, maybe we need to go back to that, there's a lot less packaging there, it's more something you notice at a supermarket.





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  Reply # 2072423 13-Aug-2018 09:10
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kryptonjohn:

 

It's not very practical for those using public transport. You need to carry all this stuff with you to the shops? And if you are shopping on the way home from work you have to take your collection of containers to work as well? 

 

 

You'd need luck to get your grocery shopping home if packed in the single-use bags that supermarkets are using - so they're not very practical for those using public transport anyway.  When I've used public transport (sometimes walk to the shop and get a bus home) I always take a sturdy -  bag as the supermarket bags split / tear and you'll end up trying to retrieve items rolling around the floor of the bus.


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  Reply # 2072427 13-Aug-2018 09:17
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Fred99:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

It's not very practical for those using public transport. You need to carry all this stuff with you to the shops? And if you are shopping on the way home from work you have to take your collection of containers to work as well? 

 

 

You'd need luck to get your grocery shopping home if packed in the single-use bags that supermarkets are using - so they're not very practical for those using public transport anyway.  When I've used public transport (sometimes walk to the shop and get a bus home) I always take a sturdy -  bag as the supermarket bags split / tear and you'll end up trying to retrieve items rolling around the floor of the bus.

 

 

Yeah true, so you end up double bagging and make the waste problem even worse!!! 


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  Reply # 2072428 13-Aug-2018 09:18
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Pumpedd:

 

Like what someone else said earlier.....banning these bags is a political diversion away from the economy at the moment. This is not a solution to anything. I want to see the Government sort out the recycling mess we are in first!!

 

Once we actually have a recycling system then start encouraging manufacturers to change the packaging etc.

 

Banning the bag wont stop anything. NZ is about to dump a years worth of plastics from recycling into land fills.

 

I have been told that a lot of "greenies" would cry if they actually understood how much of our recycling goes straight to land fill.

 

 

From what I googled there are many efforts apart from plastic bags being undertaken. Such as non plastic straws, and packaging my major NZ companies who are working with the Govt. For the life of me I cant find any response from National, except saying its interventionalist. National started a soft plastic recycling scheme, but even they don't know what's happened to it. Great. 100 other countries are making strides, and have the same challenges.

 

 

 

Environment spokesman Scott Simpson said he did not know what had happened to the group, which was intended to have input from the country's largest supermarkets and packaging industry, which he set up.

 

 

"It seems clear the Government will follow a heavy-handed interventionist regulatory path. I suspect that approach will go well beyond supermarket plastic bags and have wide ranging impacts on both individuals and businesses," he said.

 

And that is exactly what is happening, and appears supported by many here, that it goes beyond plastic bags

 

 

 

"Some of the chains we work with are saying shoppers are almost apologetic if they use a plastic bag, so the message is getting through successfully."

 

Bunnings has long been plastic bag-free and supermarkets giants Countdown, New World and hardware chain Mitre 10 have already committed to phase out the use.

 

In June, 13 companies marked World Environment Day by committing to using 100 per cent recyclable packaging by 2025.

 

New Zealand-based Foodstuffs, Countdown, New Zealand Post and Frucor Suntory, and multinationals Amcor, Danone, L'Oreal, Mars, PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, Unilever and Nestle signed the NZ Plastic Packaging Declaration.

 

Countdown, Fresh Choice and SuperValue announced they would phase out plastic straws by October 1 this year and move towards 100 per cent reusable, recyclable or compostable packaging by at least 2025.

 

So if its a good idea in principle and 100 other countries do it, then its a step. The next step will be more banned plastic I hope. A proper recycling system I hope.

 

Or we could ignore this and focus on the populist view which satisfies the views of some

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2072499 13-Aug-2018 09:50
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I've found two simple solutions to supermarket bags that mean I don't need them at all. While shopping everything goes directly into a basket or trolley.  Most items don't need a bag - for example carrots.  I have little cotton mesh bags for anything the requires more containment (e.g. loose cherries).  Some items, like Mizuna, are an unsolved challenge so a plastic bag is used

 

'Metro' supermarkets: I  take a little shopping trundler (cost $40).  At check out everything goes directly into the trundler.  At home, I wheel the trundler around at home and unload.

 

At supermarkets I drive to, at check out everything goes straight into the trolley. I keep a ~40L crate in the boot of the Paj which I unload the trolley into. At home I take the crate inside and distribute stuff around the house.   If I happen to take the other car I just grab free cardboard boxes at check-out.  I can always find uses for a cardboard box.

 

I limit plastic packaging in the groceries I buy.  As a result I've ended up buying nicer, cheaper and healthier food and the volume of the shop and the resulting recycling/rubbish has plummeted.

 

 

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 2072518 13-Aug-2018 10:17
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It's easy to forget how people coped before plastic became so prolific.  For example tomato sauce.  In the 1970's and 1980's we just had a can with two holes in it - there was a kitchen implement for making those holes, and the can lived in the fridge.  Can you even buy train-smash in cans now?

 

Pantry shelves were filled with tins and boxes and jars, rather than plastic storage containers to empty stuff that comes in disposable plastic bags into.

 

Pantries used to smell like food. 





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  Reply # 2072521 13-Aug-2018 10:20
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Storing food in tins for any period of time once opened is unsafe.


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