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  Reply # 2071446 10-Aug-2018 16:59
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The use again and again and again bags are way better for carrying groceries. No flimsy plastic film to break and send your purchases everywhere. They dont cut into ones fingers when carrying them to the car. They don't slide around as much in the trunk when driving home. They don't add to the destruction of the ocean and our food chain.





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  Reply # 2071455 10-Aug-2018 17:11
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Maybe the supermarkets should give us free reusable bags for a period. They will save millions in the long term. Supermarket competition is a bit sad here imo...


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  Reply # 2071458 10-Aug-2018 17:18
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MileHighKiwi:

 

allio:

 

The way I see it, our role as a progressive small country is to show the rest of the world that it can be done. Because we're small, it is much easier for us to make this change than it is for the US, or India, or China. Why would those countries even try if the rest of the world hasn't? Imagine a politician in the US trying to gather support for real environmental change when even "clean, green New Zealand" hasn't done it. We can force their hands by leading by example.

 

 

Like when all the super powers abandoned nuclear weapons and power stations because we said no to nukes?

 

 

It was a voice, and it did coincide with the START treaty negotiations which were falling apart, and the subsequent signing of an agreement that reduced the number of nuclear weapons massively. And it coincided with a de-escalation of tensions and the end of the cold war. (yes - there are still enough nukes to blow up the planet 50 times over instead of 200 times over)

 

It's unprovable whether what NZ did had any impact or not, but that's not really the point - it was simply the right thing to do.

 

 


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  Reply # 2071459 10-Aug-2018 17:23
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Pumpedd:

 

Maybe the supermarkets should give us free reusable bags for a period. They will save millions in the long term. Supermarket competition is a bit sad here imo...

 

 

Countdown have sturdy plastic reusable bags for sale for 15 cents each.  Not quite free, but I'm not sure they'll be raking in the extra millions from bag sales some people seem to think was behind their bag policy.

 

I'm a skeptic about some corporates, supermarket chains, banks etc.  But when they actually "do the right thing" it must be damned frustrating for them to receive so much hate in return.  That's sad too.


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  Reply # 2071460 10-Aug-2018 17:23
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scuwp:

 

Well intentioned, and I am not against the idea, but it won't make a jot of difference to the environment.    NZ was never the problem when it came to ocean pollution with plastics, and people will just go out any buy plastic bags for bin liners, dog droppings, and everything else these 'multi-use' bags were used for so it will achieve absolutely zilch, other than create 'look at me' headlines for the politicians. 

 

 

 

and yet ironically those bags will be the single use ones,  not the supermarket ones..

 

 

 

maybe this opens up the market for a reusable bag cleaner....





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  Reply # 2071461 10-Aug-2018 17:28
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Fred99:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Maybe the supermarkets should give us free reusable bags for a period. They will save millions in the long term. Supermarket competition is a bit sad here imo...

 

 

Countdown have sturdy plastic reusable bags for sale for 15 cents each.  Not quite free, but I'm not sure they'll be raking in the extra millions from bag sales some people seem to think was behind their bag policy.

 

I'm a skeptic about some corporates, supermarket chains, banks etc.  But when they actually "do the right thing" it must be damned frustrating for them to receive so much hate in return.  That's sad too.

 

 

 

 

come on they are still using plastic in every department , it's hard not to be cynical when they do nothing about the use of plastics in every other department, i mean they wrap Cabbages in cling film, they could use recyclable meat trays but they dont  , so the only right thing they are doing is something that will save them millions every year.





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  Reply # 2071469 10-Aug-2018 17:48
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vexxxboy:

 

come on they are still using plastic in every department , it's hard not to be cynical when they do nothing about the use of plastics in every other department, i mean they wrap Cabbages in cling film, they could use recyclable meat trays but they dont  , so the only right thing they are doing is something that will save them millions every year.

 

 

The stuff in the other departments, I was told at the local supermarket that they're working on replacing the single use light plastic bags in produce department now - trialling different options.  Probably paper, which as we've discussed has environmental advantages from a waste POV, but disadvantages from a greenhouse gas POV and possibly a water use/pollution POV.  There'd have to be a complete mindset change in the meat department from pre-pack trays on shelves.  A hell of a lot of the plastic is also from pre-packed items - it's not so easy.  They can possibly put pressure on manufacturers - the consumer probably needs to as well - ie - don't buy the worst packaged stuff - buy stuff that's packaged a little more responsibly.

 

The staff I've spoken to seem to be right behind it all - enthusiastic.  Good on them.

 

This might not happen overnight - but it will happen, and it's about time it did.


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  Reply # 2071474 10-Aug-2018 18:08
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Pumpedd:

 

A serious question. I am old enough to remember what supermarkets packed in before plastic. It was brown sturdy paper bags. Sure, they wern't perfect but acceptable. Why are we not going back to them? They are surely far more environmentally friendly that reusable bags?

 

I have read that the reusable bags that are on offer are extremely unfriendly in terms of the environmental cost to make them.

 

Seems to me Supermarkets are just trying to make more margin from the plastic bag ban.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

The reusable bags don't break quickly (if they did they wouldn't last long as a reusable bag and completely defeat their reusable purpose). So eventually when they tear or fade they'll end up in the dump taking ages to break down. https://infogram.com/f902e800-e2f9-442d-85d1-be4c8acbabba

 

Brown paper bags, while the breaking down is quicker, how do they compare to single use bags in terms of the environmental impact of producing them? 

 

Bring back the flax kete.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2071475 10-Aug-2018 18:18
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The policy is silly, in my opinion. A bit of cheap grandstanding by politicians who want to look like they are doing something.

 

It's not clear that the single use bags were less environmentally friendly than the reusable ones, it depends on how many times those are re-used. And on the environmental impact of washing/cleaning them, otherwise I suspect they will get unsanitary quite fast.

 

From my perspective it will probably push up my use of plastic. The bags are quite light and I used to re-use them as bin liners. Now I will have to buy the glad bin-liners. Which are a heavier grade and contain more grams of plastic per bag, and will only be used once.

 

It's also a PITA. Maybe OK for regular weekend shops where you plan the shop and take the bags with you in the car. But a fair number of my shops consist of nipping into the Wellington Railway Station New World, or the Countdown on Lambton Quay, on my way home. Generally an unplanned trip because we are out of something or my other half has asked me to get something on the way home. I won't have reusable bags on me, so I guess I will just have to buy a heavy reusable bag each time. And toss a few as they pile up at home after 1 or 2 uses. Again, vastly more plastic to the landfill than the flimsy disposable ones.

 

All in all a policy that sounds good, but on closer analysis probably isn't.

 

 


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  Reply # 2071478 10-Aug-2018 18:24
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JimmyH:

The policy is silly, in my opinion. A bit of cheap grandstanding by politicians who want to look like they are doing something.


It's not clear that the single use bags were less environmentally friendly than the reusable ones, it depends on how many times those are re-used. And on the environmental impact of washing/cleaning them, otherwise I suspect they will get unsanitary quite fast.


From my perspective it will probably push up my use of plastic. The bags are quite light and I used to re-use them as bin liners. Now I will have to buy the glad bin-liners. Which are a heavier grade and contain more grams of plastic per bag, and will only be used once.


It's also a PITA. Maybe OK for regular weekend shops where you plan the shop and take the bags with you in the car. But a fair number of my shops consist of nipping into the Wellington Railway Station New World, or the Countdown on Lambton Quay, on my way home. Generally an unplanned trip because we are out of something or my other half has asked me to get something on the way home. I won't have reusable bags on me, so I guess I will just have to buy a heavy reusable bag each time. And toss a few as they pile up at home after 1 or 2 uses. Again, vastly more plastic to the landfill than the flimsy disposable ones.


All in all a policy that sounds good, but on closer analysis probably isn't.


 



My concerns completely, I feel it’s a rashly thought out solution. Our bread bags and supermarket bags get used again as rubbish bags in our household.

Seems more like buckling to consumer demand than scientific recommendations.

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  Reply # 2071481 10-Aug-2018 18:31
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The banning of "single use" bags is tackling the problem from the wrong end to some extent. The focus should be on stopping careless practices like littering and getting people to clean up after themselves. If this was successful the environment wouldn't be littered with plastic bags, bottles etc and we wouldn't be considered banning these bags.

They're certainly not single use bags in our house.




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  Reply # 2071483 10-Aug-2018 18:32
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Kiwifruta:

Seems more like buckling to consumer demand than scientific recommendations.

 

Not really. If it was because of broad consumer demand then the policy would be irrelevant, as the mass of consumers would already be using the reusable bags of their own volition and there would be no need for the State to compel them.

 

I suspect it's more a case of caving to loud lobbying and pressure from a passionate minority, and a chance for they (politicians) to portray themselves as caring on the cheap.


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  Reply # 2071485 10-Aug-2018 18:46
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I posted this before.  Looks like the petrochemical corporate have been successful.

 

The whole plastic bag thing is a genius piece of marketing by the petrochemical multinationals. Get greenies, for free, to campaign against 5 gram plastic bags in favor of 50 gram plastic bags.  Then, sell the public 10 gram ultra tough bin liners.  Then, get the greenies to introduce legislation to force everybody to comply.  Brilliant!

 


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  Reply # 2071489 10-Aug-2018 19:14
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debo:

 

I posted this before.  Looks like the petrochemical corporate have been successful.

 

The whole plastic bag thing is a genius piece of marketing by the petrochemical multinationals. Get greenies, for free, to campaign against 5 gram plastic bags in favor of 50 gram plastic bags.  Then, sell the public 10 gram ultra tough bin liners.  Then, get the greenies to introduce legislation to force everybody to comply.  Brilliant!

 

 

About 3 months down the line here, using about 6 non-woven reusable bags - all of which are still fine.

 

At an approximation, I would have used at least 120 single use bags over that time-frame.  They're useless as bin liners anyway - they leak so you've still got to rinse the bin.  Most of them I chucked in the "recycle" bin - but they probably were probably all dumped to landfill.

 

I call BS on your version of events, I'll also call BS on conspiracy theory part - that the "petrochemical corporates" have been successful.  That's delusional - and so typical these days - a bizarre conspiracy theory is out there to counter anything some people don't like.


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  Reply # 2071491 10-Aug-2018 19:17
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JimmyH:

 

If it was because of broad consumer demand then the policy would be irrelevant, as the mass of consumers would already be using the reusable bags of their own volition and there would be no need for the State to compel them.

 

 

If "the state" didn't "compel", half the population would be smoking 40 a day, and the cigarette companies would be trying to get that up to 120 a day by lacing the tobacco with crack cocaine.

 

Get over it.

 

 


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