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342 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2071681 11-Aug-2018 10:23
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Geektastic:
danielparker:

 

Pumpedd:

 

 

 

It seems we need to bring back glass bottles....assume it is possible,

 

 

 

 

 

 

I import literally tons of Beer from all over the world (U.S and E.U) Typically it is either in glass or aluminium cans. Both are technically recyclable.

 

 

 

I would like to think that both are disposed of via recycling in NZ.

 

 

 

I say technically recyclable because I don't know what happens once it is in the recycling bin.

 

 

 

DFP

 

 

 

  

 



Do you need an intervention? There is a 12 Step Program that can help...

 

And if you do go down that road, I'll be happy to take stock off your hands.


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  Reply # 2071682 11-Aug-2018 10:24
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.

 

 

As bolded, and as stated by you both, its a people issue. If plastic bags went into the red bin, that goes to landfill. Anything that goes into the yellow recycle bin, MUST be recycled. I now recall where I saw that most isn't recycled, it was a news article on TV. I can't recall why, apart that one reason is, many plastics cannot be recycled due to how they were created. Its not a case of just melting everything. So we need to only use plastics that can be melted and reused. Singapore type fines for littering plastic. Im not sure how viable recycling plastic is. If it was more costly, then we need a levy on plastic, so that raw or recycled is the same raw material cost. Provide true recycling centres that melt the plastic, these are funded by the plastic tax. So you say, not another tax??  Technically yes, but if Joe Public is going to cause costs, Joe Public can pay for managing the plastic that he isnt managing, and if the cost of NZ managing plastic responsibly costs a bit more, thats fine, as thats the TRUE cost of using plastic.

 

 

in Rotorua if you put plastic bags in the yellow bins or that polystyrene packing, the bins wont be emptied  , they have to go into the red bins.





Common sense is not as common as you think.


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  Reply # 2071698 11-Aug-2018 10:47
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tdgeek:

 

As bolded, and as stated by you both, its a people issue. If plastic bags went into the red bin, that goes to landfill. Anything that goes into the yellow recycle bin, MUST be recycled.

 

 

Er, no. If you put things that cannot be recycled by your council or their contractor in the recycling bin, then it contaminated the load. Once the contamination reaches a certain percentage (not much, could even be 1%) the entire truck full of recyclables is diverted to landfill.

 

Do not put plastic bags in your council bin.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2071730 11-Aug-2018 13:45
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danielparker:

 

Pumpedd:

 

It seems we need to bring back glass bottles....assume it is possible,

 

 

I import literally tons of Beer from all over the world (U.S and E.U) Typically it is either in glass or aluminium cans. Both are technically recyclable.

 

I would like to think that both are disposed of via recycling in NZ.

 

I say technically recyclable because I don't know what happens once it is in the recycling bin.

 

DFP

 

 

Aluminium cans have value as metal for recycling. We can recycle them here - we can make them here from NZ aluminium - smelted using renewable (hydro) power. I'm not sure if foreign comparison of environmental impact of glass vs aluminium cans would be reliable here, if there's an assumption the smelting is using fossil fuel for electricity generation.

 

According to this article, sorted glass for recycling has a value of about $75/tonne.  Returns would be eaten into by transport cost.  Aluminium cans should have a value in excess of $1500/tonne - it's worth 20x more than waste glass, so collection, handling and transporting it should be viable.

 

I assume that most aluminium cans do get sorted and recycled already - it's worth doing it.

 

I see NZ boutique beer from "Garage Project" etc for sale in aluminium cans - perhaps the market will shift back.  There's often not much variety in canned beer available, Speights, VB or Heinecken etc, no dark beers, ales, etc - unless it's imported and often pretty expensive.  I think the Garage Project cans retail at about $7-8 per 330ml can - that's really getting up there in my opinion.  It bugs me - if I'm taking beer on our boat, I don't like having glass bottles on board, there's not much choice in cans, 1.125l PET bottles are fine, except if you just want a glass, the remaining beer goes flat quite fast - even in the fridge.


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  Reply # 2071807 11-Aug-2018 16:47
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scuwp:

 

Well intentioned, and I am not against the idea, but it won't make a jot of difference to the environment.    NZ was never the problem when it came to ocean pollution with plastics, and people will just go out any buy plastic bags for bin liners, dog droppings, and everything else these 'multi-use' bags were used for so it will achieve absolutely zilch, other than create 'look at me' headlines for the politicians. 

 

 

 

Personally, I guess I'll be buying heavy duty plastic bin liners from now. Way better than those single use plastic bags, and very cheap too .  Not sure if they are better for the environment, probably not due to increased thickness. 

 

Hopefully they don't make people use cloth or paper bags... they are worse for the environment  than plastic. 

 

 


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Reply # 2071826 11-Aug-2018 17:18
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Wow, 8 pages and counting? I do love how worked up people get on these sort of things, on both sides of the issue ;-)   This looks fairly "sensible" take on the issue: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/12/17337602/plastic-tote-bags-climate-change-litter-life-cycle-assessments-environment.

 

This I think is fairly accurate though:

 

 

When it comes to mitigating climate change, however, what grocery bags you use has a relatively small impact, says Jonna Meyhoff Fry, a senior consultant in life cycle management who conducted the UK study in 2011. It matters more what you put inside those bags (Do you eat lots of meat? Do you buy local?) and how you get to the grocery store. (Do you drive your car or walk?)

 

 

Of course most people are far less likely to change these habits, so back on the whole bags debate.... My approach is basically:

 

* re-use whatever I get as many times as possible (even single use bags when I do occasionally get them)

 

* try to use re-usable, recycled bags

 

* don't litter when finished with them (or in general - I seem to recall this being a big thing as a kid, not so much these days?)

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2071831 11-Aug-2018 17:32
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sidefx:

 

Wow, 8 pages and counting? I do love how worked up people get on these sort of things, on both sides of the issue ;-)   This looks fairly "sensible" take on the issue: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/12/17337602/plastic-tote-bags-climate-change-litter-life-cycle-assessments-environment.

 

 

Interesting article. 

 

Makes you wonder why they are banning plastic bags. Maybe government want to be seen as 'virtuous' without actually being so? 

 

Simlarly to how Labour banned new oil & gas exploration. Sounds nice, emissions from oil and gas will cause the oceans to swallow swathes of new zealand. So, lets ban oil and gas. 

 

But we need oil and gas so more will be imported. Perhaps imported from countries with poor environmental laws. And, it will be transported here on ships that burn dirty diesel. Net effect is that even more gas and oil will be burned and Labour are hastening environmental damage and sea level rises.   But, it does sound virtuous even if it is not. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2071838 11-Aug-2018 17:51
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surfisup1000:

 

sidefx:

 

Wow, 8 pages and counting? I do love how worked up people get on these sort of things, on both sides of the issue ;-)   This looks fairly "sensible" take on the issue: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/12/17337602/plastic-tote-bags-climate-change-litter-life-cycle-assessments-environment.

 

 

Interesting article. 

 

Makes you wonder why they are banning plastic bags. Maybe government want to be seen as 'virtuous' without actually being so? 

 

Simlarly to how Labour banned new oil & gas exploration. Sounds nice, emissions from oil and gas will cause the oceans to swallow swathes of new zealand. So, lets ban oil and gas. 

 

But we need oil and gas so more will be imported. Perhaps imported from countries with poor environmental laws. And, it will be transported here on ships that burn dirty diesel. Net effect is that even more gas and oil will be burned and Labour are hastening environmental damage and sea level rises.   But, it does sound virtuous even if it is not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are focussing on politics. Last I heard Countdown and New World and Save N Pak are not parties. Any political party would embrace any green actions. 


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  Reply # 2071842 11-Aug-2018 18:02
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surfisup1000:

 

Makes you wonder why they are banning plastic bags. Maybe government want to be seen as 'virtuous' without actually being so? 

 

 

Low hanging fruit, gets a few votes.

 

Meaningful would be to put together a program to improve true recycling. More plants for it, spend some money on educating people about recycling etc...

 

 


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  Reply # 2071845 11-Aug-2018 18:05
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networkn:

 

surfisup1000:

 

Makes you wonder why they are banning plastic bags. Maybe government want to be seen as 'virtuous' without actually being so? 

 

 

Low hanging fruit, gets a few votes.

 

Meaningful would be to put together a program to improve true recycling. More plants for it, spend some money on educating people about recycling etc...

 

 

 

 

Exactly. It's not rocket science. Embrace the community and so on.




190 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2071872 11-Aug-2018 19:35
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I don’t see the plastic bag issue relates, to any great degree, to climate change. More about plastic in the environment and the amount that goes to landfill.

While plastic bags are a “drop in the bucket, so to speak, of plastic waste, it is an example where a waste product can be eliminated by a simple change in behaviour.

It also is a significant milestone in the general push to mitigate the effects of consumer waste.

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  Reply # 2071928 11-Aug-2018 23:47
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Lastman: I don’t see the plastic bag issue relates, to any great degree, to climate change. More about plastic in the environment and the amount that goes to landfill.

While plastic bags are a “drop in the bucket, so to speak, of plastic waste, it is an example where a waste product can be eliminated by a simple change in behaviour.

It also is a significant milestone in the general push to mitigate the effects of consumer waste.

 

 

 

We have some way to go.

 

My mother was horrified when, on a visit to her earlier in the year, I casually threw things in what looked remarkably like 'the kitchen bin' but turned out to be one of 3 bins in the kitchen to match the three bins she had outside. "Don't throw that in there! I'll get Yellow Stickered - I have already had one of those this month! One more and I get a £100 fine!"

 

 

 

It seems to have gone rather too far the other way in the UK...! 

 

 

 

We don't even get our bin emptied by the council here, much less any recycling collection. Most of the farmers hereabouts burn their rubbish on the farm, I hear - including plastic bale and silage wrap etc.






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  Reply # 2071953 12-Aug-2018 09:41
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networkn:

 

Low hanging fruit, gets a few votes.

 

Meaningful would be to put together a program to improve true recycling. More plants for it, spend some money on educating people about recycling etc...

 

 

We've been "educated" about recycling for 50 years - while simultaneously things have gotten worse - with regard to a massive increase of single use plastic, cheap plastic crap toys and household goods by the container load sold in discount stores, unserviceable short-lived disposable tech.

 

Education doesn't work for that any better than making tax optional and educating people to pay it voluntarily would.

 

Some compulsion is needed.


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  Reply # 2071962 12-Aug-2018 11:19
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Kyanar:

 

Supermarkets actually replaced brown paper bags with more environmentally options - plastic bags.

 

 

Ain't never heard of a brown paper bag strangling wildlife, or vast floating islands of brown paper bags clogging oceans.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2071963 12-Aug-2018 11:35
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No more impulse buying for me when I’m out for a walk, don’t think a reusable bag will squash into my pocket.

Is this all shops or just supermarkets, sometimes I get stuff from JB hi fi and it needs an extra large bag?

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/business/plastic-bag-ban-costs-coles-and-woolworths/news-story/6ce43198d037d88540db18eaf5f18e2d

Link is paywalled but main bit is that there is a reduction in Supermarket sales.

People taking longer to go through check out, and also people making sure they don’t buy more then what bags can hold, where before wouldn’t worry about it.

Also number of bin linears in Australia has doubled.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.adelaidenow.com.au/news/bin-line-sales-double-nation-average-after-plastic-bag-ban/news-story/5110eb1ecbe8e10e3e18d16e11545940

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