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  Reply # 2106859 12-Oct-2018 16:46
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It is a political issue, sadly.

 

Regardless I couldn't disagree more. For a start, that link is very light on detail as to the impact NZ activity has on global Co2 levels. 

 

Even cutting New Zealand emissions to 0 as of today would make negligible difference to the predicted global temperature increases. 

 

New Zealand should be a follower not a leader in this. 

 

Unless the US/China/India/Europe (and other most populous nations) reach a common agreement first, there is no point in us doing anything as it will achieve nothing. 

 

I'd bet that China increases it's emissions each year by more than the total annual New Zealand emissions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2106900 12-Oct-2018 17:49
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I emailed the PM urging her to do what she said she wanted to in the UN speech and do more to wean us off oil rather than score a few points by temporarily forcing petrol prices down a little till political attention is turned elsewhere.




iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


gzt

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  Reply # 2106993 12-Oct-2018 20:05
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surfisup1000: Unless the US/China/India/Europe (and other most populous nations) reach a common agreement first, there is no point in us doing anything as it will achieve nothing.

It's a small country, it's also a small world.

NZ is a first world country in most indicators with a corresponding use of resources. This also gives us opportunities to make a difference.

The technology, techniques and methodologies developed here to address our issues will be used worldwide to reduce emissions. The consequences of anthropogenic sea level rise will severely affect NZ and our neighbors.

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  Reply # 2107563 14-Oct-2018 09:41
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Wall Street Journal quoting Nobel laureate: UN ignores economics of climate: "the costs of proposed CO2 cuts aren't worth it....In its latest full report, the IPCC estimated that in 60 years unmitigated global warming would cost the planet between 0.2% and 2% of gross domestic product. That’s simply not the end of the world." Article worth reading:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-n-ignores-economics-of-climate-1539125496?redirect=amp&fbclid=IwAR1kQTIpG6T1R4WJRXazH3ijHmaKo4H7okmhGOEsO73p53s4R_gbaQNjJos#click=https://t.co/ZWfSF8zW8k


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  Reply # 2107573 14-Oct-2018 10:13
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The link is broken




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 2107578 14-Oct-2018 10:22
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Fred99:

MikeAqua:


Rikkitic:


I suppose we can all sit around and keep thinking of excuses not to do anything until the sky falls. 



And probably will.



Not all of us. My BIL is a climate scientist.  He bought an electric car.



In the absence of more info on your BIL, that doesn’t signify anything. Maybe Climate Change Scientists are currently being paid too much given current band-wagon popularity of their field of endeavour. Maybe IT consultants were able to afford expensive cars during the run-up to Y2K. Maybe Meth-house Decontamination Consultants were able to afford expensive cars up until recently.

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  Reply # 2107579 14-Oct-2018 10:26
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  Reply # 2107581 14-Oct-2018 10:31
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The article is paywalled.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2107582 14-Oct-2018 10:33
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Oh dear! You must have been reading WSJ more frequently than me - I wasn't paywalled out!




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  Reply # 2107584 14-Oct-2018 10:34
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I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2107587 14-Oct-2018 10:47
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Thanks for fixing the link for me!!




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  Reply # 2107626 14-Oct-2018 10:59
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OK, the WSJ is a Murdoch propaganda machine like Fox News, only more subtle. It has a hidden agenda and that is what it pushes. The information in the cited article is misleading. Here is a better version. 

 

This NYT piece explains what is happening inside the WSJ, though I think it is a bit too friendly.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2107635 14-Oct-2018 12:06
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gzt:
surfisup1000: Unless the US/China/India/Europe (and other most populous nations) reach a common agreement first, there is no point in us doing anything as it will achieve nothing.

It's a small country, it's also a small world.

NZ is a first world country in most indicators with a corresponding use of resources. This also gives us opportunities to make a difference.

The technology, techniques and methodologies developed here to address our issues will be used worldwide to reduce emissions. The consequences of anthropogenic sea level rise will severely affect NZ and our neighbors.

 

You've used the classic strawman argument. Manipulating your words to make it look like I said something I didn't. Clearly I was discussing the politics.  Governments tend to use taxes and emission trading schemes to target Co2 emissions.  There is no way that New Zealand can take a lead politically. We are 0.05714% of the world population, noone cares about us. 

 

I never said NZ couldn't make a difference from a technology/scientific approach. A technology solution could be developed in someones garage anywhere on the planet, including New Zealand. Who knows!  In fact, I think technology will be the only solution to reducing Co2 levels.     

 

Achieving a political solution reminds me of the boiling frog fable.. .ie, agreement would only reached when it is far too late. 

 

 




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  Reply # 2107648 14-Oct-2018 12:33
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surfisup1000:

 

Achieving a political solution reminds me of the boiling frog fable.. .ie, agreement would only reached when it is far too late. 

 

 

This is an interesting point. What I believe will happen is that the politicians will dither until it is too late for preventive measures and then when things really go south there will be an all-out world-wide effort that will result in amazing technological innovation that will rescue us from total collapse, but only after enormous pain, expense, suffering and sacrifice, in every sense equivalent to World War. We have an astounding ability for technological innovation, whether it is mirrors in space or global carbon scrubbers or something no-one has thought of yet. That isn't the problem. The problem is political will and the inability of anyone to decide to go first. So instead we will dither and put off doing anything too demanding until the crash comes and the world economy implodes and it becomes a matter of simple survival, and then we will finally get our act together with a global effort and fix the problem. And along the way millions will die and billions will suffer because no-one could be bothered until it affected them in ways that could no longer be ignored. The human race is both stupidly selfish and incredibly noble. We will get there in the end, but it is going to be a damned painful trek.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


gzt

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  Reply # 2107653 14-Oct-2018 12:59
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surfisup1000:

gzt:
surfisup1000: Unless the US/China/India/Europe (and other most populous nations) reach a common agreement first, there is no point in us doing anything as it will achieve nothing.

It's a small country, it's also a small world.

NZ is a first world country in most indicators with a corresponding use of resources. This also gives us opportunities to make a difference.

The technology, techniques and methodologies developed here to address our issues will be used worldwide to reduce emissions. The consequences of anthropogenic sea level rise will severely affect NZ and our neighbors.


You've used the classic strawman argument. Manipulating your words to make it look like I said something I didn't. Clearly I was discussing the politics.  Governments tend to use taxes and emission trading schemes to target Co2 emissions.  There is no way that New Zealand can take a lead politically. We are 0.05714% of the world population, noone cares about us. 


I never said NZ couldn't make a difference from a technology/scientific approach. A technology solution could be developed in someones garage anywhere on the planet, including New Zealand. Who knows!  In fact, I think technology will be the only solution to reducing Co2 levels.     


Achieving a political solution reminds me of the boiling frog fable.. .ie, agreement would only reached when it is far too late.


That wasn't my intention sorry if it came across that way. I left my point kind of incomplete.

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