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  Reply # 2110401 18-Oct-2018 11:37
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antoniosk: This still depends on the foreign supplier being willing to register for GST, collect and make payments thereafter. Changing the threshold for imposition of duties and tax sounds like a compromise based on effort vs return - at what point is the cost to collect higher than what you’re collecting ?

I hope it doesn’t lead to an AmazonAustralia style situation where orgs decide they can’t be bothered because NZ isn’t worth enough, forcing people into more YouShop style shipping (which is OK as an experience but I’ve found some us companies won’t ship to freight forwarders either).

 

There's a threshold of $60K total sales to NZ pa for each company; below that, they don't have to collect. Dunno who does collect the GST in that case. Perhaps the importer has to pay it to IRD or Customs before they get their goods.

 

I wonder whether IRD considers AliExpress one company for the purposes of this? Technically, they're just holding the money whilst the purchase of goods is from a third party.

 

And I still think that asking a company in (say) China to collect money for the NZ Govt is fraught. China is very corrupt and wild-west; I foresee lots of under-reporting of GST collection happening, with the company just pocketing the 15% as an additional profit. What is the NZ Govt going to do about it, even if they discover it? De-register (assuming that they were even registered) that company from the GST collection system? Anything else?

 

 


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  Reply # 2110404 18-Oct-2018 11:52
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I'd expect the GST reporting to be transactional and therefore auditable and having the possibility of identifying both GST not applied and GST collections withheld. It makes little sense to use the alternative of one big bucket without any transaction data.


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  Reply # 2110405 18-Oct-2018 11:52
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frankv:

 

I wonder whether IRD considers AliExpress one company for the purposes of this? Technically, they're just holding the money whilst the purchase of goods is from a third party.

 

Pretty sure I heard them say that marketplaces like AliEx/Etsy/Ebay etc are to be considered as a single exporter...

 

frankv:

 

And I still think that asking a company in (say) China to collect money for the NZ Govt is fraught. China is very corrupt and wild-west; I foresee lots of under-reporting of GST collection happening, with the company just pocketing the 15% as an additional profit. What is the NZ Govt going to do about it, even if they discover it? De-register (assuming that they were even registered) that company from the GST collection system? Anything else?

 

I'm guessing the last resort is to hold the packages and harass the purchasers... its unlikely to change the O/seas sellers behaviour but it might reduce their sales in NZ if it becomes known that you have to jump through a bunch of customs hoops and payments to get you goods...


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  Reply # 2110438 18-Oct-2018 12:21
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As I mentioned in other thread, every single package I received has had lower price on them.

Since then I’ve asked other people, and every package they’ve had has had lower price on it to.

I.e one person had package they paid $3 for it from China, written on outside package was 50 cents.

A reply I got was receiver can be prosecuted if they determine goods different value, are they going to prosecute everyone who buys from overseas or take what ever action?

Because of these false declarations, which I even seen goods from USA with lower prices as well, how are they going to collect GST when everyone is stating lower values?

On a positive note I brought something from a company that was charging digital import GST and to my surprise they were charging $NZ, so I paid GST but saved the credit card currency conversion fees etc.
I changed it to US $ and the GST was dropped, just to see what would happen, I changed it back to $NZ before completing purchase, I wonder if physical goods for the ones that follow rules will also be charged $NZ.

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  Reply # 2110458 18-Oct-2018 12:48
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tripp:

 

I for one am happy about this.  I don't mind paying GST but removed the duties etc for goods under $1000 is a great idea

 

 

Totally agree with this. Completely removes the perverse incentive to keep purchases below $400.

 

I have no problem paying GST on purchases and making a level playing field with local retailers. If nothing else, removing the "oh, but we have to charge GST" argument as a reason why stuff here can cost ridiculously more. Never quite followed how price + 15% = licence to charge price + 50% (I understand that there's lots of reasons why stuff may cost more here, but would prefer to hear those reasons cited rather than specious GST blaming).


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  Reply # 2110473 18-Oct-2018 13:12
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surfisup1000:

 

sbiddle:

 

Why would Amazon stop shipping to NZ? They have collected GST, duty and IETF for NZ for the last ~7 years will have very minimal change compared to other retailers who will have to register and start collecting taxes.

 

 

Considering they did this in Australia (amazon australia is hardly a replacement for amazon US either). 

 

I don't think the issue is their ability to collect . 

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-regret-any-inconvenience-this-may-cause-amazon-to-stop-shipping-to-australia-from-july-1/news-story/0842f955c18b0f84c3cee7046f63b894

 

 

 

Rather, it is to warn governments of small nation that amazon is more powerful than them. 

 

 

Amazon made it very clear last year during the consultation process that they would stop shipping to Australia if the GST rules were introduced. The real reasons are complex and beyond the scope of this thread but do involve politics.

 

There is nothing to suggest that Amazon are looking to make any changes to NZ.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2110525 18-Oct-2018 15:11
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Theres a clear markup with certain products in NZ even with GST added from overseas.

 

 

Example: Asus ROG Strix x470-F AM4 motherboard is $360 GST inc. from pbtech

 

 

From Amazon with free shipping $186usd, roughly 285nzd. If you add GST to that it's around $40 difference you're paying to pbtech.

 

 

Without GST its 26% cheaper to get online, of course people won't consider local as highly.

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  Reply # 2110543 18-Oct-2018 15:24
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SpartanVXL: Theres a clear markup with certain products in NZ even with GST added from overseas.

Example: Asus ROG Strix x470-F AM4 motherboard is $360 GST inc. from pbtech

From Amazon with free shipping $186usd, roughly 285nzd. If you add GST to that it's around $40 difference you're paying to pbtech.

Without GST its 26% cheaper to get online, of course people won't consider local as highly.


I consider that a very fair price in NZ. You're talking about the cheapest price on Amazon vs a physical bricks and mortar retailer in NZ.

That $40 includes distributor and retail margins and factors in warranty obligations and the CGA.

Remember any purchase from the US will also incur you another 2.5% ish in credit card fees.

Distributors also need to factor in and compensate for currency fluctuations.

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  Reply # 2110546 18-Oct-2018 15:42
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I'm for this change assuming the likes of amazon still ship.

Particularly for importing say, midteir Supermicro gear that's not normally in NZ i'd often land just over that 400$ mark..





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 2110555 18-Oct-2018 16:03
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sbiddle:
SpartanVXL: Theres a clear markup with certain products in NZ even with GST added from overseas.

Example: Asus ROG Strix x470-F AM4 motherboard is $360 GST inc. from pbtech

From Amazon with free shipping $186usd, roughly 285nzd. If you add GST to that it's around $40 difference you're paying to pbtech.

Without GST its 26% cheaper to get online, of course people won't consider local as highly.


I consider that a very fair price in NZ. You're talking about the cheapest price on Amazon vs a physical bricks and mortar retailer in NZ.

That $40 includes distributor and retail margins and factors in warranty obligations and the CGA.

Remember any purchase from the US will also incur you another 2.5% ish in credit card fees.

Distributors also need to factor in and compensate for currency fluctuations.

 

 

The product is listed as new and under $190usd for over a month while in NZ the lowest price was $330nzd for one day and $348 for 4 days.

 

 

If the usd went back to 0.72c the difference would be a $100 less, almost 30% off. As said before, this is very tempting for people to get especially if $100 goes a long way with you.

 

 

Personally I'm reluctant to spend that value when a decent motherboard used to be around $260, exactly the price amazon is offering.

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  Reply # 2110556 18-Oct-2018 16:03
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sbiddle:
That $40 includes distributor and retail margins and factors in warranty obligations and the CGA.

 

Why do we need a "distributor" and a "retailer"? This might have made sense in the past when there were all kinds of Customs and other hoops to jump through, but a distributor nowadays is irrelevant.

 

I do accept that CGA obligations *could* push the price up, and that *could* be worth paying for. But is the warranty from Amazon any different from the warranty offered by PBTech? And does it not cover the CGA obligations?

 

 


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  Reply # 2110579 18-Oct-2018 16:47
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Yeah I think the distributor model is a little old fashioned. I play a lot of golf, my brother is professional (teaching, not playing) and the only thing that saves golf shops is most people won't buy with out physically testing or holding gear. I rarely test anything, I just order whatever I want in the specs I want and when it turns up I use it. But most won't do that. So there's still a place for the old distributor/retail shop model. Just. 

 

I get most of my mountain-bike stuff from overseas, and clothes. 


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  Reply # 2110593 18-Oct-2018 17:07
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I also strongly believe Amazon (US) will stop shipping to NZ. They will forces us to use Amazon (AUS) which is quite below par and very expensive.


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  Reply # 2110612 18-Oct-2018 18:19
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SaltyNZ:

 

This is potentially even more interesting. The short story is that the reason you can get stuff shipped from China for free is that they have had an exception to the global standard shipping fee structure since 1969, and it is being shut down. I haven't seen anything to indicate that NZ is going to follow suit, but note that this is not actually a Donald Trump thing: it has been under negotiations for some time apparently. The EU are also looking into it.

 

Personally if we did follow suit that would be a good thing. The amount of cheap s*** flowing from China to landfill via a short detour into our houses might slow down a bit.

 

 

It's actually a fair/good move. (Hence it's most unlikely to actually be an idea of Trump's).

 

The purpose of the agreement was to make sending letters from developing nations affordable, not to subsidise one-off shipments of millions of packages of cheap goods.

 

Pre-email days, I don't know if people now realise how much alternative methods used to cost, telex, telegram, international calls/faxes.  It was a major cost for business - you really had to keep a lid on it.  


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  Reply # 2110617 18-Oct-2018 18:48
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A few points:

 

  • My understanding of the Customs regime isn't as good as my understanding of tax, but local distributors of overseas goods still have to pay duty on goods imported into NZ which they on sell, while under this now, a person who imports goods won't have to pay that duty if it is under $1,000.  So for those people it will be annoying, but they are presumably not the local sellers that this law is looking to even the playing field for (but rather local producers of goods). 
  • $60k threshold still applies, if overseas supplier is under threshold no GST when purchased, and no GST at border unless the good is over $1,000.
  • Technically, asking someone to declare a lower price on the importation documentation so that it falls below the $1,000 threshold could be tax evasion if GST wasn't paid when you purchased the good.
  • IRD is estimating 75% compliance with the law, with all big sellers complying.
  • Marketplaces and freight-forwarders are still included and required to register.
  • If IRD find that an overseas seller who should be charging GST isn't, they will get a court order in NZ which can then be enforced overseas through various agreements NZ has with other countries to collect tax.  Otherwise, if there is someone in NZ who owes money to that overseas seller, they can get an order that the money should be paid to it instead.
  • A number of marketplaces made submissions on the first discussion document and from memory they didn't say they would not comply or anything, most of their points were on logistics

 


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