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Wannabe Geek
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Topic # 243884 7-Jan-2019 13:45
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Greetings!  For a couple reasons, I was recently "forced" to come up-to-speed on the NZ census issue.  I had previously read the posts here ("The 2018 Census" thread), and now am moved to inform you of some of my findings.

 

 

 

”Do I have to complete the census?”

 

The Statistics Act 1975 requires that everyone in New Zealand on census day must fill out a census form. If you don’t participate, or if you provide false or incomplete information, you could be fined.

Because participation in the census is required under the Statistics Act, this overrides the general requirements of the Privacy Act.

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

”What happens if people don't bother?”

 

They'll receive another letter asking them to complete the Census. Then, if they still haven't taken action, I believe they'll receive door knockers.

 

 

 

It always bothers me when I see people being taken advantage of by Caesar (i.e. man’s ungodly government). In Caesar’s world, knowledge is power, so he endeavors to keep that knowledge in-house. Thus, Caesar utilizes his codes, and only his people are taught how to read them. Every lawyer and every judge (another lawyer) in the land know this. That’s why they will always reference their Law Dictionary in their courts of law (while we fumble with our sanitized and watered down Dictionary for Dummies). It also forms the basis of their code books -- legal code, tax code, motor vehicle code, medical code, ad nauseum. They know that meanings do not change over time; they count on our ignorance of that fact, to the end that today, only their Caesarian-qualified people know how to read their code.

 

 

 

The best place to start is by examining the codes/statutes/rules/regulations of the perpetrator himself. So let’s do a little “code deciphering” of our own, shall we?

 

 

 

The answer to the census question can be viewed in two parts: 1) What is the definition of “census,” and 2) Who is required to participate.

 

 

 

Here’s one definition of “census”:

 

 

 

“CENSUS...an authentic declaration made before the censors, by the citizens, of their names and places of abode...an enumeration of the inhabitants...” [source: Webster]

 

 

 

Here’s another definition, taken from the NZ government’s website [census dot govt dot nz]:

 

 

 

“What is the census?

 

 

 

The census is the official count of how many people and households there are in New Zealand. It takes a snapshot of the people in New Zealand and the places where we live.

 

 

 

By law, Statistics NZ must hold a census once every five years, and everyone must fill in a form.”

 

 

 

By definition, we see that a census consists of nothing more than the names and places of abode of a country’s citizens.

 

 

 

So those of you who are NZ citizens (i.e. partakers of the forum state’s benefits and privileges) are required by NZ law to submit to the census - and nothing more.

 

 

 

The census has one lawful purpose, and one only – to determine how many people live in a given area so districts can be divided up relatively equally.

 

 

 

So what is Caesar’s authority? Here is Section 24 of the Statistics Act 1975:

 

 

 

24 Particulars to be collected at census

 

 

 

(1) At every census of population and dwellings particulars relating to all of the following matters shall be obtained from every occupier or person in charge of a dwelling:

 

 

 

(a) the name and address, sex, age, and ethnic origin of every occupant of the dwelling:

 

 

 

(b) particulars of the dwelling as to location, number of rooms, ownership, and number of occupants on census night.

 

 

 

(2) At any census of population and dwellings, the Statistician may, if he considers it in the public interest so to do, obtain from every occupier or person in charge of a dwelling particulars relating to all or any of the following additional matters:

 

 

 

(a) the profession or occupation and industry in which employed, nationality and citizenship, health, marital condition, religion, birthplace, duration of residence in New Zealand, address where living at previous census or previous year, number of children, number of hours worked per week for wages or salary or financial reward, status in employment, name and address of employer, mode of transport to and from work, time taken to travel to work, income, address of usual residence, and service in the armed forces of every occupant of the dwelling:

 

 

 

(b) particulars of the dwelling as to type and tenure of dwelling and nature of materials of structure, household amenities, rent paid, and details of any livestock:

 

 

 

(c) any information relating to the kinds of statistics for which information may be required pursuant to section 4 or as may be prescribed by regulations under this Act.”

 

 

 

Notice subsection (1) fits nicely with the previously listed legal definitions of “census.” So if you are a NZ citizen, then that is what you are legally required to provide – and nothing more.

 

 

 

However, subsection (2) is where deception is employed. Caesar is attempting to conflate what is legally required (i.e. the “census”), with what is not legally required (i.e. “additional matters”).

 

 

 

Notice the two words above that I have bolded. Subsection (1), pertaining to the “census,” states “shall.” And subsection (2), pertaining to “additional matters,” states “may”... and may denotes permission!

 

 

 

Yes, the citizen shall provide the census information. And while Caesar’s Statistician may ask you about “additional matters,” he cannot legally require you, without your permission, to answer those additionals.

 

 

 

Understand that Caesar always mixes what is holy, with what is profane, and you are not expected to discern the difference. You are expected to suck it up and fall in line with all the others who are likewise unaware of what Caesar’s code book states.

 

 

 

So when that census form arrives in your mail, give Caesar precisely the information he is legally entitled to: one, two, three, four or whatever number of people live in your house.

 

 

 

Don’t tell him your marital status, your race, the ages of your family members, the number of telephones or TV sets or commodes you have in your house – or anything else. It isn’t Caeasar’s business, and he is exceeding his legal authority in asking.

 

 


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  Reply # 2155788 7-Jan-2019 13:56
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how is society suppose to make important decisions on things like schools or infrastructure without this information?


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  Reply # 2155789 7-Jan-2019 13:58
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Eh, you sound a little ... freeman on the land here, my friend.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2155801 7-Jan-2019 14:11
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What was the purpose of that post ?  I got lost trying to read it.


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  Reply # 2155813 7-Jan-2019 14:34
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OP has probably spent more time on this post and being anti-census than just actually filling out the census..


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  Reply # 2155831 7-Jan-2019 14:42
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Can I get a TL;DR summary please?


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  Reply # 2155839 7-Jan-2019 14:46
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I have been waiting for someone to post all that info - well done @doctrox and time well spent.


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  Reply # 2155843 7-Jan-2019 14:49
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doctrox:

 

He is exceeding his legal authority in asking.

 

 

The following court convictions indicate otherwise...

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11201593


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  Reply # 2155869 7-Jan-2019 15:31
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Jase2985:

 

how is society suppose to make important decisions on things like schools or infrastructure without this information?

 

 

It seems very clear to me, that census info isn't being used to provide infrastructure in a timely fashion.  I base this comment on the state of the hospitals, schools and roads I see most often.





Mike

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  Reply # 2155871 7-Jan-2019 15:36
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quickymart:

 

Can I get a TL;DR summary please?

 

 

 

 

"Census Bad"





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  Reply # 2155872 7-Jan-2019 15:37
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They might be even WORSE without census data.




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  Reply # 2155875 7-Jan-2019 15:43
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SaltyNZ: They might be even WORSE without census data.

 

We shall soon see, because according to 3 news article a couple of weeks ago, the 2018 census was so bad, the data may not meet sufficient quality thresholds to be valid.  I'm paraphrasing the stats person interviewed, but the gist of it was it may all have been a waste of time.





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  Reply # 2155878 7-Jan-2019 15:49
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They might also be worse with data, if the data are bad e.g. grossly misrepresent the actual situation.


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  Reply # 2155885 7-Jan-2019 15:56
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MikeAqua:

SaltyNZ: They might be even WORSE without census data.


We shall soon see, because according to 3 news article a couple of weeks ago, the 2018 census was so bad, the data may not meet sufficient quality thresholds to be valid.  I'm paraphrasing the stats person interviewed, but the gist of it was it may all have been a waste of time.



Having bad data from one particular census does not invalidate the general methodology of “if we want to allocate resources, we need to know who needs them,” which is the idea behind having a census. Neither does having poor services, because there are any number of reasons why the services might be poor. In fact, when there’s not enough money to go round - and when is there ever? - having demographic data is even more vital to ensure that the best use can be made of what little there is.

TL;DR “Things are crap” does not mean “census is useless”.




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  Reply # 2155888 7-Jan-2019 16:00
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I'll bite :)

 

A dictionary definition of society is (Cambridge Dictionary): a large group of people who live together in an organized way, making decisions about how to do things and sharing the work that needs to be done.

 

A Census helps provide that order.


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  Reply # 2155909 7-Jan-2019 16:41
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Doctrox, in the nicest way possible - you sound like a tinfoil hat nutcase. Just fill out your census.


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