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  Reply # 2157388 10-Jan-2019 11:06
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MikeB4:

 

surfisup1000:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

I have severely degenerated discs. Not only do they have give you pain killers but also can give benzos as anto muscle spasms.

They say its a gate way drug, rubbish. Sure some people will be lazy and just smoke it all day, but those people already exist. Giving people Opioids is beyond a gateway drug you are giving them drugs.

 

Sorry to hear that ... i once had a sore back and it was the worst. Only lasted a few hours though. 

 

I can't agree that cannabis is not a gateway drug.  Someone might buy some cannabis, the dealer might offer you some free P on top.  You are at a party where people are the type who enjoy cannabis, some of whom do harder drugs and offer you a hit.     

 

Good luck for your search, worth trying cannabis as some people say it works for them ...but it's amazing that in this day and age we don't have effective pain relief without side effects or long term complications. 

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that there is this resistance to Cannabis related pain relief as it is narcotic based but there is no apparent resistence to the opiate based and synthetic opiate based pain relief which is also derived from a Narcotic base.

 

 

 

 

I would love to see a study looking at how much money the government would make if pot was taxed and sold like alcohol.

 

They want piles of money for various projects and nobody wants to pay more income tax or CGT so might this not be a handy earner?






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  Reply # 2157396 10-Jan-2019 11:15
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surfisup1000:

 

Beccara:

 

lol, A bunch of stoners who smoke a drug which chills them out and slows them down are not going to take P, A drug that amps you up and makes you run at 200%

 

 

"a 2012 Yale research study that demonstrated that in both men and women 18 to 25, the use of marijuana was linked with an increased chance of future prescription drug abuse."

 

Sounds like a gateway drug to me. 

 

 


I think it goes without saying a lot of people who use any form of drug regardless of what it is are seeking a high or disassociation, chances are these people will go on to obtain a drug of another class down the line. Weed is probably the most common thing to be doing in that space and its just by default that these guys already smoke weed.

A gateway drug is something that you do that makes you want something more potent. Weed makes you hungry and dumb, there is no effect to THC that makes you crave a stronger high, that is you wanting to forget you exist more and more so you intentionally smoke more, don't numb pain with weed people... 





 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2157399 10-Jan-2019 11:22
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surfisup1000:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

I have severely degenerated discs. Not only do they have give you pain killers but also can give benzos as anto muscle spasms.

They say its a gate way drug, rubbish. Sure some people will be lazy and just smoke it all day, but those people already exist. Giving people Opioids is beyond a gateway drug you are giving them drugs.

 

Sorry to hear that ... i once had a sore back and it was the worst. Only lasted a few hours though. 

 

I can't agree that cannabis is not a gateway drug.  Someone might buy some cannabis, the dealer might offer you some free P on top.  You are at a party where people are the type who enjoy cannabis, some of whom do harder drugs and offer you a hit.     

 

Good luck for your search, worth trying cannabis as some people say it works for them ...but it's amazing that in this day and age we don't have effective pain relief without side effects or long term complications. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

saying weed is a gateway drug, is like saying milk or water are gateway drugs too.

 

 

 

Everyone that's addicted to Heroin tried weed first.

 

Everyone that's addicted to Heroin tried milk/water first.


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  Reply # 2157402 10-Jan-2019 11:27
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Geektastic:

 

MikeB4:

 

surfisup1000:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

I have severely degenerated discs. Not only do they have give you pain killers but also can give benzos as anto muscle spasms.

They say its a gate way drug, rubbish. Sure some people will be lazy and just smoke it all day, but those people already exist. Giving people Opioids is beyond a gateway drug you are giving them drugs.

 

Sorry to hear that ... i once had a sore back and it was the worst. Only lasted a few hours though. 

 

I can't agree that cannabis is not a gateway drug.  Someone might buy some cannabis, the dealer might offer you some free P on top.  You are at a party where people are the type who enjoy cannabis, some of whom do harder drugs and offer you a hit.     

 

Good luck for your search, worth trying cannabis as some people say it works for them ...but it's amazing that in this day and age we don't have effective pain relief without side effects or long term complications. 

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that there is this resistance to Cannabis related pain relief as it is narcotic based but there is no apparent resistence to the opiate based and synthetic opiate based pain relief which is also derived from a Narcotic base.

 

 

 

 

I would love to see a study looking at how much money the government would make if pot was taxed and sold like alcohol.

 

They want piles of money for various projects and nobody wants to pay more income tax or CGT so might this not be a handy earner?

 

 

it would be a lot of money

 

Its weird that progressive NZ is far behind conservative US on this issue

 

In Washington State where I live, population is about 7million, and so far the weed tax has bought in US$750MM for the State, or about US$300MM a year now.

 

Weed Tax is (apparently) about 50% of the retail price.


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  Reply # 2157417 10-Jan-2019 11:33
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

I would love to see a study looking at how much money the government would make if pot was taxed and sold like alcohol.

 

They want piles of money for various projects and nobody wants to pay more income tax or CGT so might this not be a handy earner?

 

 

I feel the reason they are slow at moving on this is they have not found an effective means of taxing it. The casual user only needs a few plants for personal use unlike a cigarette smoker  where a large plot of tobacco is needed to supply enough to feed a habit, so taxing Mary and Bob is going to be very hard. There is also the pressure exerted on Governments by Big Pharma, they want Maryand Bob to continue to be supplied with their expensive drugs.

 

I ask however how much would the Government save on prescription pain relief and the GP subsidies to get repeat prescriptions etc.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

A Tiger in Africa, probably escaped from the Zoo.

 

 


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  Reply # 2157428 10-Jan-2019 11:40
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nathan:

 

Geektastic:

 

I would love to see a study looking at how much money the government would make if pot was taxed and sold like alcohol.

 

They want piles of money for various projects and nobody wants to pay more income tax or CGT so might this not be a handy earner?

 

 

it would be a lot of money

 

Its weird that progressive NZ is far behind conservative US on this issue

 

In Washington State where I live, population is about 7million, and so far the weed tax has bought in US$750MM for the State, or about US$300MM a year now.

 

Weed Tax is (apparently) about 50% of the retail price.

 

 

In Canada, where it's recently been legalised, the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce had predicted that Canada's retail pot market could top $6.5 billion by 2020, a good percentage of the country's alcohol spend, and meaning the provinces - with direct control of Cannabis sales - would take home more than 70 per cent of the profits and taxes, some $3 billion a year.

 

With legalisation now in full swing it looks as though they may have underestimated actual demand.

 

Colorado, with a population of 5.6 million (more NZ sized), sold $1.95 billion Cdn worth of legal cannabis in 2017, collecting $319 million in taxes and fees.


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  Reply # 2157437 10-Jan-2019 11:52
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nathan:

 

In Washington State where I live, population is about 7million, and so far the weed tax has bought in US$750MM for the State, or about US$300MM a year now.

 

Weed Tax is (apparently) about 50% of the retail price.

 

 

Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?


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  Reply # 2157440 10-Jan-2019 11:57
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MurrayM:

 

nathan:

 

In Washington State where I live, population is about 7million, and so far the weed tax has bought in US$750MM for the State, or about US$300MM a year now.

 

Weed Tax is (apparently) about 50% of the retail price.

 

 

Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?

 

 

why don't people grow their own veges instead of buying them from the market?

 

why do people buy prepackaged cigarettes from a retailer instead of chop-chop roll your own from the black market?

 

:)


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  Reply # 2157444 10-Jan-2019 12:03
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nathan:

MurrayM:


nathan:


In Washington State where I live, population is about 7million, and so far the weed tax has bought in US$750MM for the State, or about US$300MM a year now.


Weed Tax is (apparently) about 50% of the retail price.



Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?



why don't people grow their own veges instead of buying them from the market?


why do people buy prepackaged cigarettes from a retailer instead of chop-chop roll your own from the black market?


:)



If I was to consume some of the ol grass. I’d be more keen for some scientifically grown super strain That I know what I’m getting over some pot luck weak home grown stuff.




 


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  Reply # 2157445 10-Jan-2019 12:03
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Interesting reading this thread...read it all before prior to Canada and the legalization 2018 Oct.

Oh and everyone knows Milk is the gateway drug to alcohol consumption....

 

 

 

The latest news story I read out of Canada on the weed....

 

Canadians most enjoy the munchies after cannabis consumption, survey


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  Reply # 2157446 10-Jan-2019 12:05
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MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

I would love to see a study looking at how much money the government would make if pot was taxed and sold like alcohol.

 

They want piles of money for various projects and nobody wants to pay more income tax or CGT so might this not be a handy earner?

 

 

I feel the reason they are slow at moving on this is they have not found an effective means of taxing it. The casual user only needs a few plants for personal use unlike a cigarette smoker  where a large plot of tobacco is needed to supply enough to feed a habit, so taxing Mary and Bob is going to be very hard. There is also the pressure exerted on Governments by Big Pharma, they want Maryand Bob to continue to be supplied with their expensive drugs.

 

I ask however how much would the Government save on prescription pain relief and the GP subsidies to get repeat prescriptions etc.

 

 


I agree, at least in terms of those who choose to grow it. However, we do not all brew beer or distil spirits, we buy them. I presume the majority of cannabis sales would be similar to the retail type of shop seen in the other parts of the world where such things are allowed and thus would be easily taxed and regulated.






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  Reply # 2157447 10-Jan-2019 12:05
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MurrayM:

 

Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?

 

 

Because with taxes set at a reasonable level, much like buying alcohol, your average person would rather walk down to the local Liquor (Cannabis) Store than go to the trouble of brewing (growing) it at home.

 

Especially since there you'll get a proven, quality, consistent product, - tested, labelled and certified to have (x) amount of THC per gram, in a flavour you know you like, with no nasty pesticides or mould added.


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  Reply # 2157454 10-Jan-2019 12:25
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Sidestep:

 

MurrayM:

 

Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?

 

 

Because with taxes set at a reasonable level, much like buying alcohol, your average person would rather walk down to the local Liquor (Cannabis) Store than go to the trouble of brewing (growing) it at home.

 

Especially since there you'll get a proven, quality, consistent product, - tested, labelled and certified to have (x) amount of THC per gram, in a flavour you know you like, with no nasty pesticides or mould added.

 

 

That is also another point, some fertilizers and sprays had a cool down time before you could harvest i recall from the farm days.  
It would not be of any surprise if people were jacking their plants up on chemicals to get the best crop, those may have some traces of found in the end product which maybe negative to health.





 


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  Reply # 2157459 10-Jan-2019 12:28
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Go easy on the quoting, people

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  Reply # 2157462 10-Jan-2019 12:33
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If we expect drug companies to do randomised controlled trials to prove efficacy, we should do the same for medicinal cannabis.

I dont have any problem with cannabis being a legal recreational drug like alcohol but have concerns about those advocating medicinal benefits in the absence of randomised studies.

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