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  Reply # 2157463 10-Jan-2019 12:33
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surfisup1000:

 

I wonder what would happen if all drugs were simply legalised, but drug education was boosted. 

 

 

As mentioned by someone else, there's the big debate of legalisation vs decriminalisation.

 

The country where there has probably been the most drastic liberalisation of drug laws is Portugal, but they went down the track (in 2001) of decriminalisation of all drugs, not legalisation. The results have been quite striking, though this article points out that not all the improvements can necessarily be put down to the law change - https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

 

I heard/read something interesting a few weeks back on drug reform, in which a key point was that it was not feasible to make assumptions based on what happened in other locations where drug laws have been liberalised: it's such a multi-factorial issue. So decriminalising all drugs in NZ may lead to quite different outcomes than what occurred in Portugal.

 

Anyone interested in reading about drug reform should read Russell Brown's posts in his blog Public Address. One of his recent posts is of particular relevance to the original question of this thread, given it points towards a more hands-off approach towards possession and personal use of all drugs:

 

But an accompanying announcement is the really interesting part. As I've indicated here before, ministers have been seeking to balance the get-tough part of any new approach to the synthetics problem in both a specific and general sense. Specifically, to try and ensure that people stuck using synthetics aren't further victimised by the harsher penalties for simple possession that the rescheduling implies. And generally, to do justice to its mantra that drug use should be approached as primarily a health rather than a criminal matter.

 

Finding the actual nature of that balance has not been an easy matter, and both official and independent expert advice has been sought on how to manage it. But this is what they're doing, per this morning's announcement:

 

Amending the Misuse of Drugs Act to specify in law that Police should use their discretion and not prosecute for possession and personal use where a therapeutic approach would be more beneficial, or there is no public interest in a prosecution. This will apply to the use of all illegal drugs, so there is no perverse incentive created encouraging people to switch to a particular drug.

 

Yes, you read that correctly. The Misuse of Drugs Act will be amended to guide Police discretion in such a way that the default will be to not prosecute personal use and possession of any illegal drug. The government is at pains to emphasise that this is not the full Portugal-style decriminalisation  repeatedly called for in last week's Report of the Government Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction, and you may even expect reform advocates to play it down a bit. But it's a really big deal.

 

 


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  Reply # 2157477 10-Jan-2019 12:57
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nathan:

 

MurrayM:

 

Why don't people just grow it themselves and avoid the "weed tax"? Are criminals/gangs still selling it to people (presumably cheaper than in the weed shops since the crims wouldn't be paying the tax)?

 

 

why don't people grow their own veges instead of buying them from the market?

 

why do people buy prepackaged cigarettes from a retailer instead of chop-chop roll your own from the black market?

 

:)

 

 

I know plenty of people that grow their own veggies, have chickens in order to get their eggs, brew their own beer, roll their own ciggies, etc. Mostly in an effort to make them more affordable (eg spend less at the supermarket), but also because they think home-grown is better/tastier than supermarket bought.

 

But I see your point; in today's busy world most people will pay for convenience.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2157483 10-Jan-2019 13:13
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surfisup1000:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

I have severely degenerated discs. Not only do they have give you pain killers but also can give benzos as anto muscle spasms.

They say its a gate way drug, rubbish. Sure some people will be lazy and just smoke it all day, but those people already exist. Giving people Opioids is beyond a gateway drug you are giving them drugs.

 

Sorry to hear that ... i once had a sore back and it was the worst. Only lasted a few hours though. 

 

I can't agree that cannabis is not a gateway drug.  Someone might buy some cannabis, the dealer might offer you some free P on top.  You are at a party where people are the type who enjoy cannabis, some of whom do harder drugs and offer you a hit.     

 

Good luck for your search, worth trying cannabis as some people say it works for them ...but it's amazing that in this day and age we don't have effective pain relief without side effects or long term complications. 

 

 

 

 

By that Logic.. the gateway drug is the alcohol that's brought you to the party..

 

Pot isn't a gateway drug.. there are a lot more uses than just getting high..

 

Alcohol, Cigarettes and pair pressure is..


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  Reply # 2157485 10-Jan-2019 13:16
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I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.

 

It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 

 

People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.


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  Reply # 2157487 10-Jan-2019 13:18
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tripper1000:

 

I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.

 

It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 

 

People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.

 

 

what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?

 

maybe, you mean drunk kids?


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  Reply # 2157529 10-Jan-2019 13:35
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nathan:

 

tripper1000:

 

I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.

 

It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 

 

People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.

 

 

what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?

 

maybe, you mean drunk kids?

 

 

I know the local community constable from highschool days, they also remember me - by name. Had a good chat about these kids when I was walking my mates dog. They came up to me and asked if I was there to smoke weed (Stereotyping as I drive a BMW) and clearly I was there to walk the dog but I had a chat.

 

They had issue with kids in cars without the correct licence, showing off doing burn outs in gravel, littering and being of general nuisance. They said they don't give a flying f if they smoke weed but since they can't smoke weed at their parents house they do it in public and create a nuisance. 





 


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  Reply # 2157531 10-Jan-2019 13:38
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tripper1000:

 

Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

 

Those two countries also have highly controlling governments, draconian laws (not just drugs), and a compliant population. Matches my earlier point regarding how different approaches may 'work' better in different countries (not that I feel this approach should ever be the right one).


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  Reply # 2157535 10-Jan-2019 13:46
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tripper1000:

 

I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.

 

It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 

 

People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.

 

 

medical products (apparently) use CBD not THC

 

Those are nut job countries

 

Singapore is authoritarian, arguably a dictatorship, that loves sin taxes, it taxes $48 per litre of alcohol for beer and $70 per litre of alcohol for spirits

 

Emirati people are brainwashed and indoctrinated by religion.  UAE Emirati authorities ban pork, porn, and even books are censored, carrying even a 1G of weed (allegedly enough for a joint) gets you a 4 year jail sentence, while its illegal to drink or be drunk in public, or even to be under the influence of alcohol, transiting thru the airport.


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  Reply # 2157536 10-Jan-2019 13:47
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jonathan18:

 

tripper1000:

 

Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

 

Those two countries also have highly controlling governments, draconian laws (not just drugs), and a compliant population. Matches my earlier point regarding how different approaches may 'work' better in different countries (not that I feel this approach should ever be the right one).

 

 

smuggle that good shi*, the gum, into Singapore man


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  Reply # 2157537 10-Jan-2019 13:51
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Coil:

 

nathan:

 

tripper1000:

 

I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.

 

It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 

 

People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.

 

 

what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?

 

maybe, you mean drunk kids?

 

 

I know the local community constable from highschool days, they also remember me - by name. Had a good chat about these kids when I was walking my mates dog. They came up to me and asked if I was there to smoke weed (Stereotyping as I drive a BMW) and clearly I was there to walk the dog but I had a chat.

 

They had issue with kids in cars without the correct licence, showing off doing burn outs in gravel, littering and being of general nuisance. They said they don't give a flying f if they smoke weed but since they can't smoke weed at their parents house they do it in public and create a nuisance. 

 

 

sounds like weed has nothing to do with anything.

 

Burn outs, littering and being a nuisance is de rigueur for bored kids.

 

I never knew BMW drivers were stereotyped as stoners ;)


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  Reply # 2157543 10-Jan-2019 14:06
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Again, go easy on the quoting. I'll have to start deleting posts to clean things up if you can't quote responsibly 🤓

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  Reply # 2157544 10-Jan-2019 14:07
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tripper1000:

 

Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.

 

 

Yep, welcome to the UAE, where they take hard line approach to cannabis use, as well ...

 

  • Social media - expect jail time if you dare spoof their culture via Facebook
  • Marriage - if you are a woman you will require permission from a "male guardian" if you want to remarry
  • Dancing - don't try it in public; banned.
  • Relationships outside of marriage - yep, it's illegal for non-married people to live together or even share a hotel room.

So, thanks for the suggestion, but I think I will look elsewhere for best practice guidance on how to manage drug use within society.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2157545 10-Jan-2019 14:07
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nathan: what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?

 

maybe, you mean drunk kids? 

 

They are dealing with younger kids that ever before (sub 15 y.o.) getting more wasted than ever before and committing higher level crimes than ever before, such as armed robbery, stabbings/murder, home invasion etc. We're not talking social nuances like burnouts and doughnuts in cars. Apparently the media isn't even reporting the tip of the iceberg.  

 

Yeah, alcohol is usually also a factor but weed isn't as natural as it used to be. Weed & synthetic weed is being laced with extra stuff, which produces more extreme behaviour than the weed of yester-year. As someone alluded to above, having super-weed means better business and this won't diminish under liberalisation - it will probably get worse with increased competition.


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  Reply # 2157554 10-Jan-2019 14:10
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Coil:

nathan:


tripper1000:


I know a couple of cops and a couple of mental health nurses and given the amount of work they currently experience generated by people who have overindulged in weed, they all expect a big uptick in business if/when weed becomes legal.


It is a false notion that the cops are kept busy with the business of turning pot smoking paraplegics and cancer victims into criminals. The reality is that they are overworked dealing with the consequences of stoned kids. 


People who hold Portugal and Canada up as success stories portray only one extreme of the argument. Singapore and UAE have extremely low problems with drugs (probably less than anyone else) but have achieved that success through extremely harsh penalties.


Don't get me wrong, I think that it is mental for THC free medical products to be banned. There are plenty of other publicly available and safe products derived from nasty stuff.



what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?


maybe, you mean drunk kids?



I know the local community constable from highschool days, they also remember me - by name. Had a good chat about these kids when I was walking my mates dog. They came up to me and asked if I was there to smoke weed (Stereotyping as I drive a BMW) and clearly I was there to walk the dog but I had a chat.


They had issue with kids in cars without the correct licence, showing off doing burn outs in gravel, littering and being of general nuisance. They said they don't give a flying f if they smoke weed but since they can't smoke weed at their parents house they do it in public and create a nuisance. 



I had no idea BMW drivers were habitual potheads. Might explain a few things....😄





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  Reply # 2157556 10-Jan-2019 14:11
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tripper1000:

 

nathan: what consequences, are the Police dealing with, from stoned kids?

 

maybe, you mean drunk kids? 

 

They are dealing with younger kids that ever before (sub 15 y.o.) getting more wasted than ever before and committing higher level crimes than ever before, such as armed robbery, stabbings/murder, home invasion etc. We're not talking social nuances like burnouts and doughnuts in cars. Apparently the media isn't even reporting the tip of the iceberg.  

 

Yeah, alcohol is usually also a factor but weed isn't as natural as it used to be. Weed & synthetic weed is being laced with extra stuff, which produces more extreme behaviour than the weed of yester-year. As someone alluded to above, having super-weed means better business and this won't diminish under liberalisation - it will probably get worse with increased competition.

 

 

synthetic weed isn't weed whatsoever.

 

weed doesn't make teenagers do armed robberies, stabbings, murders or home invasions.


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