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2209 posts

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  # 2168389 27-Jan-2019 14:26
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The Wyoming was a wooden six-masted schooner, the largest wooden schooner ever built at 100 meters.

It had what Noah didn't: 90 steel crossbraces, each 10 meters long.

It carried a steam engine for auxiliary tasks -- hauling lines, reefing sails, and pumping out water. Even with a steam engine to help, it still required 11 people to sail. Its trips were mostly 4 days long. It has extreme leaking problems, due to flexing.

Noah's ark was supposed to 137 meters minimum, at least 37 meters longer.

It was manned by 8 people, 3 less than the "donkey engine" assisted Wyoming.

Besides manually doing all tasks, such as pumping water, they had to take care of:
* pairs of every kind of bird
* pairs of every kind of animal
* pairs of every kind of creature that moves along the ground.
* plus six more pairs of every clean animals (cattle, deer, goats, sheep, ...)
* plus six more pairs of every clean birds (chickens, doves, ducks, ...)

While we're on the subject, Methuselah, the oldest person in the Bible at 969 years old, is Noah’s grandpa.

Noah lived to be 950 years old, 350 years after the Flood.

Noah had kids when he was 500 years old.

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  # 2168392 27-Jan-2019 14:35
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As the (brilliant!) song goes, "the things that you're liable, to read in the bible, it ain't necessarily so."

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2168393 27-Jan-2019 14:44
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Hammerer:

 

Because you targeted Ussher instead of the "morons" you now say you were aiming at.

 

Because the words were derisive when they didn't need to be. If you knew all about Ussher then why portray him in opposite characteristics. I could create an apposite list to emphasise how your words sent a different message.

 

Because your "flippant" comments will likely be taken as reliable facts by someone else reading this thread. Particularly where you don't intentionally indicate flippancy - an emoji would have helped. It's similar to the consequences of repeating the flat-earth myth which has already turned up at least once in this topic.

 

 

I have to wonder why you are being so sensitive about this. Is he a relative of yours?

 

I did not target Ussher or portray him in any way. You are the one who brought him up. I simple referred to a rural parson, later amended to country parson, along with a dash of parochialism. Any other characteristics you added yourself.

 

It is heart-warming that you want to protect other readers of this thread from false beliefs like the flat earth myth and the world being 6,000 years old, but I imagine most Geekzone members can work out that kind of thing for themselves, and those who can't are probably lost causes anyway.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2168442 27-Jan-2019 15:06
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Rikkitic:

 

KiwiTim:

 

Why should it happen when we are here to observe it? When you multiply these probabilities by all the other tiny probabilities that came together to bring us into existence, it starts to stack up to the point where random chance for all of this looks increasingly absurd and illogical.

 

 

How can you state random chance for it is absurd and illogical? On what basis do you make that judgement? What do you have to compare it to? Are you the universal arbiter of how random chance is allowed to work? This doesn't make sense. The Universe couldn't care less whether we are here to observe it or not. It would still carry on the same without us. If it actually is infinite, or even close, every random chance there is will occur regardless of how you feel about it.

 

 

I go back to my silly example of a planet with oceans of Coca-cola and continents of marshmallow. Given an infinite  amount of time and all the matter in the universe, this perhaps could happen, but I imagine nobody here would ever think it would happen. Why is that? Why do we think this is an absurd improbability (one that will never happen by random processes)? Because we each have a personal perception of how things happen in the natural world, or have knowledge from others to explain why things happen as they do. We simply do not expect oceans of Coke to form based on what we know about chemistry.

 

We know how probabilities multiply, we know something about thermodynamics, chemistry and biology. You have to follow the evidence or the lack of evidence. Of course, how an individual human perceives reality, the universe, the processes that drive the universe, has no effect on those realities/physical laws/processes. That is a given, but we have to follow the evidence, or lack of evidence where it leads, and absurdly improbable events are not likely to happen. If we wish to assume that everything is possible just because of the size and age of the universe, then we have to include really crazy ideas like the coke ocean, or raining cats and dogs, or moons made of cheese. As far as we know,everything is not possible; physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology constrain events within certain parameters. We have nothing suggesting abiogenesis is within those parameters.

 

If I dump a load of building supplies on some land, nobody would expect them to self assemble into a house. Why is that? What we know about thermodynamics and entropy suggest it would not happen. I could repeatedly dump those materials onto the site, and maybe they could form some rough hollow structure by chance, but it won't be stable and it won't be a house as we know it. You can take practical examples from the natural world to understand whether something is practically probable or improbable. Of course I'm not a universal arbiter of how random chance works, but everything absurdly improbable is not possible. Find me a moon made of cheese and you might change my mind.


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  # 2168449 27-Jan-2019 15:20
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I am still inclined to think that our current inability to explain how life starts is just due to limited understanding, not to anything that would make it impossible.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2168452 27-Jan-2019 15:55
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Rikkitic:

 

I am still inclined to think that our current inability to explain how life starts is just due to limited understanding, not to anything that would make it impossible.

 

 

 

 

That is a position of faith.


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  # 2168493 27-Jan-2019 16:19
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kingdragonfly:

The Wyoming was a wooden six-masted schooner, the largest wooden schooner ever built at 100 meters.

It had what Noah didn't: 90 steel crossbraces, each 10 meters long.

It carried a steam engine for auxiliary tasks -- hauling lines, reefing sails, and pumping out water. Even with a steam engine to help, it still required 11 people to sail. Its trips were mostly 4 days long. It has extreme leaking problems, due to flexing.

Noah's ark was supposed to 137 meters minimum, at least 37 meters longer.

It was manned by 8 people, 3 less than the "donkey engine" assisted Wyoming.

Besides manually doing all tasks, such as pumping water, they had to take care of:
* pairs of every kind of bird
* pairs of every kind of animal
* pairs of every kind of creature that moves along the ground.
* plus six more pairs of every clean animals (cattle, deer, goats, sheep, ...)
* plus six more pairs of every clean birds (chickens, doves, ducks, ...)

While we're on the subject, Methuselah, the oldest person in the Bible at 969 years old, is Noah’s grandpa.

Noah lived to be 950 years old, 350 years after the Flood.

Noah had kids when he was 500 years old.

 

The bible is actually called the Tanakh; It is a narrated account (story) of how the a group of middle eastern people (Jews) became exiled in Babylon (modern day Iraq). It was memorized by scribes who then wrote them down while they were in exile and questioning their place on the planet. The early bits about how the universe came to be has parallels to all cultures around the world, not just mediterraneanthe chinese has an adam and floods, the Maori has their adam and their flood, because the pakeha doesn't have a culture, they do not understand cultural stuff. What you call the bible is the cultural roots of the Jews.

 

It is not a factual encyclopedia of how the universe came to be. It is not a science textbook. There will also be exaggerations as the narrated stories are passed on through the generations. It also does not say humans did not evolve from bacteria, it does not say humans did. It is neutral on that subject.

 

IMHO the inaccuracies of the narrated history of a single culture and the dislike/hatred of people of certain beliefs should not be used as proof of absence of a higher being who has access to more dimensions than humans ... the scientists don't use that as proof of such, just take a look at their theories - more dimensions, simulation hypothesis, something from nothing theory ..





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.




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  # 2168498 27-Jan-2019 16:36
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Hmmm. I keep hearing that the Bible is the literal truth.

I don't remember reading a Bible preamble saying

"the following is more-or-less how things happened, plus or minus 95%.

These are just a collection of tall tales and poems. No one should hurt anyone over other differing interpretations.

For God's sake, don't go to war over small differences in opinions on these fictions.

Again, this is not a literal truth.

Feel free to cherry-pick parts you agree with, and ignore parts you don't
"

I guess I was also mistaken in believing that the old testament is part of the Bible, and should never been given in sermons at churches.

Man, do I feel like a fool.

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  # 2168506 27-Jan-2019 16:42
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Rikkitic:

 

I did not target Ussher or portray him in any way. You are the one who brought him up. I simple referred to a rural parson, later amended to country parson, along with a dash of parochialism. Any other characteristics you added yourself.

 

 

In the flow of posts I've quoted below, you appeared to respond about how the chronology was created:

 

gzt:
tdgeek:

 

I thought for the religious people that God creates us 6000 years ago? That number sticks in my head from somewhere

 


This number has become an accepted biblical chronology in some circles. Needless to say, not all religious people agree.

 

I omit @GZT's video post response to @NUNZ

 

Rikkitic:

 

A few hundred years ago a rural British parson with time on his hands decided to work it out and made the calculation based on his reading of the bible. It is essentially nonsense but has gained currency with some fundamentalist sects.

 

That response is factually incorrect and misleading.

 

You said it was "flippant" so why are you now objecting to me clarifying the history? Or are you now saying that your post was responding to something else?


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  # 2168507 27-Jan-2019 16:43
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kingdragonfly: Hmmm. I keep hearing that the Bible is the literal truth.

I don't remember reading a Bible preamble saying

"the following is more-or-less how things happened, plus or minus 95%.

These are just a collection of tall tales and poems. No one should hurt anyone over other differing interpretations.

For God's sake, don't go to war over small differences in opinions on these fictions.

Again, this is not a literal truth.

Feel free to cherry-pick parts you agree with, and ignore parts you don't
"

I guess I was also mistaken in believing that the old testament is part of the Bible, and should never been given in sermons at churches.

Man, do I feel like a fool.

 

So are you here to criticize people who believe in every literal word of an ancient text that in the very first chapter has some issues surrounding what we know (plants were present before day and night was created - at least have the night and the day installed at the start, get the planet spinning first), or are you here to discuss the science of evolution? I am not seeing how one has got anything to do with the other.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 2168510 27-Jan-2019 16:51
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Hammerer:

 

You said it was "flippant" so why are you now objecting to me clarifying the history? Or are you now saying that your post was responding to something else?

 

 

Do what you like. I am moving on from this. We are off topic and splitting hairs over a very minor matter.

 

  





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2168512 27-Jan-2019 16:52
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kingdragonfly: Hmmm. I keep hearing that the Bible is the literal truth.

I don't remember reading a Bible preamble saying

"the following is more-or-less how things happened, plus or minus 95%.

These are just a collection of tall tales and poems. No one should hurt anyone over other differing interpretations.

For God's sake, don't go to war over small differences in opinions on these fictions.

Again, this is not a literal truth.

Feel free to cherry-pick parts you agree with, and ignore parts you don't
"

I guess I was also mistaken in believing that the old testament is part of the Bible, and should never been given in sermons at churches.

Man, do I feel like a fool.

 

Regarding the sermons at churches, do you watch tv? Full of fake advertising that make people believe in all kinds of things. If your wife watches tv and wants you to buy some stuff because they are great, and tells all her friends to do the same, do you start and argument and divorce her, or do you just let her watch the tv and carry on. Im very happy to let people do what they want to do, let them believe in the get rich seminars, self improvement shows, the property investments, the superstitions, the shares, the prayers, whether to drive route A or route B to the stadium. 





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.




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  # 2168513 27-Jan-2019 16:52
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I don't see how saying you saying "because the pakeha doesn't have a culture, they do not understand cultural stuff" has relevance either, but I guess I'm just racist.

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  # 2168520 27-Jan-2019 17:05
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kingdragonfly: I don't see how saying you saying "because the pakeha doesn't have a culture, they do not understand cultural stuff" has relevance either, but I guess I'm just racist.

 

My apologies if you're offended, I'm just trying to say that each culture has their own "creation" story. Maori, Native Americans, Chinese, etc, but people nowadays somehow don't get it and either believe every word, or they gain a hatred of those who believe every word and it consumes both parties! All for no good reason.





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.




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  # 2168544 27-Jan-2019 18:01
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My apologies if you're offended, I'm just trying to say that each culture has their own "creation" story. Maori, Native Americans, Chinese, etc, but people nowadays somehow don't get it and either believe every word, or they gain a hatred of those who believe every word and it consumes both parties! All for no good reason.



I over-reacted too. I don't consider myself pakeha, of European descent. I usually don't know what to fill in on the census, as I don't neatly fit into the categories almost always.

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