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MurrayM
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  #2214828 11-Apr-2019 09:57
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mclean:

 

MurrayM: ...Apparently the police said that based on overseas experience a follow-up attack usually happened about six weeks after the initial attack. This could be in either retaliation or support of the original attack...

 

In support of the original attack?  That would be some sort of anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic attacking returned servicemen and their families?

 

 

One RSA (maybe more?) was thinking of adding an Islamic prayer to their service. That might be like a red rag to a bull for an anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic.


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networkn
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  #2214829 11-Apr-2019 09:59
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tdgeek:

 

mclean:

 

MurrayM: ...Apparently the police said that based on overseas experience a follow-up attack usually happened about six weeks after the initial attack. This could be in either retaliation or support of the original attack...

 

In support of the original attack?  That would be some sort of anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic attacking returned servicemen and their families?

 

 

Its more a case of these terrorists types letting everyone else know they are here. Its not over, don't relax etc.

 

 

Sure, but they could do this anywhere, at any public event. Are we going to live in fear, cancelling anything that doesn't have police presence? Bombings/shootings have occurred at concerts, festivals, all sorts of things.

 

In my view, this guy has got exactly what he wanted. It's a difficult one because I do understand wanting to be safe and cautious, but in my view there is also the risk that terror organizations are watching our reaction and see we are suspectible to a fear reaction meaning they would try more stuff here because they can cause terrror. 

 

 


networkn
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  #2214865 11-Apr-2019 10:04
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MurrayM:

 

One RSA (maybe more?) was thinking of adding an Islamic prayer to their service. That might be like a red rag to a bull for an anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic.

 

 

Why would they add Islamic prayer to their service? Was Islam involved in some meaningful way with the ANZACS? I am unsure how many Muslims attend the services.

 

I am ok with inclusiveness, but this feels "off" to me. I think there is a term for it, but I can't recall it.

 

One thing I will say, I live in an area with a reasonable population of Muslims, my kids go to a school with and have friends who are Muslim. I have yet to speak to a parent of those kids who believes the stuff we are doing to show "inclusiveness" is being well recieved by their community. Opposite in some cases. The head scarf thing wasn't well recieved at all in my view.

 

 




gzt

gzt
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  #2214868 11-Apr-2019 10:09
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networkn:

tdgeek:


mclean:


MurrayM: ...Apparently the police said that based on overseas experience a follow-up attack usually happened about six weeks after the initial attack. This could be in either retaliation or support of the original attack...


In support of the original attack?  That would be some sort of anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic attacking returned servicemen and their families?



Its more a case of these terrorists types letting everyone else know they are here. Its not over, don't relax etc.



Sure, but they could do this anywhere, at any public event. Are we going to live in fear, cancelling anything that doesn't have police presence? Bombings/shootings have occurred at concerts, festivals, all sorts of things.



No it's a short term thing only. Don't panic.

gzt

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  #2214869 11-Apr-2019 10:11
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networkn:

MurrayM:


One RSA (maybe more?) was thinking of adding an Islamic prayer to their service. That might be like a red rag to a bull for an anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic.



Why would they add Islamic prayer to their service? Was Islam involved in some meaningful way with the ANZACS?


Yes, kiwis go to Turkey every year for exactly that reason. I expect those that do are not as easily fooled by all the anti-islamic carry on we get these days.

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  #2214870 11-Apr-2019 10:12
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No it's a short term thing only. Don't panic.

 

I am sorry if I in some way gave you the impression I am panicking, I can assure you the opposite is true.

 

Bottom line is, I believe the threat isn't significantly worse now than it would be over any subsequent period of time. If I was a terrorist, I'd be waiting till people got complacent again and the police presence died down again. 

 

 


networkn
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  #2214873 11-Apr-2019 10:14
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gzt:

 

networkn:

 

MurrayM:

 

One RSA (maybe more?) was thinking of adding an Islamic prayer to their service. That might be like a red rag to a bull for an anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic.

 

 

Why would they add Islamic prayer to their service? Was Islam involved in some meaningful way with the ANZACS?

 


Yes, kiwis go to Turkey every year for exactly that reason. I expect those that do are not as easily fooled by all the anti-islamic carry on we get these days.

 

 

Why then, were the Islamic prayers not considered part of the services since the outset and why now more than before?

 

 




MikeB4
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  #2214877 11-Apr-2019 10:24
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Police resources are limited and already stretched they simply cannot be where every ANZAC service will be held and many location would be a nightmare to watch. There will be young kids, disabled folk and very frail veterans who in the event of an incident would not be able get away or easily take cover. The decisions being made are sensible and I trust the police and they don't need to let the entire populous know. 

 

As for the Islamic prayer, in the spirit of inclusiveness it is fitting also I know veterans that are Islamic.


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  #2214900 11-Apr-2019 11:09
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MikeB4:

 

As for the Islamic prayer, in the spirit of inclusiveness it is fitting also I know veterans that are Islamic.

 

 

I know lots of veterans who are all sorts of different religions, creeds, races and other things on top, but those people are not represented. 

 

Are we going to include Islamic prayer this year only as a result of the attacks, or every year going forward? 

 

I wonder if the Muslim/Islamic community sought this or is something that someone thought they would do on their own accord. Is it actually the answer to a question that wasn't being asked? A little like the name change of a sports team.

 

 


mclean

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  #2214914 11-Apr-2019 11:23
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MikeB4:...The decisions being made are sensible and I trust the police and they don't need to let the entire populous know...

 

That's really the essence of my original post. I'm sure the decisions are sensible. And the police don't need to explain why. But they could. They could do better than "no specific risk to public safety at this time".  Maybe a public explanation would hinder some police operation?  Perhaps a public explanation would exacerbate some threat?  Could it be politically inopportune?  Fair enough, but aside from MurrayM's post we are kind of left in the dark.





McLean


MikeB4
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  #2214915 11-Apr-2019 11:25
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mclean:

 

MikeB4:...The decisions being made are sensible and I trust the police and they don't need to let the entire populous know...

 

That's really the essence of my original post. I'm sure the decisions are sensible. And the police don't need to explain why. But they could. They could do better than "no specific risk to public safety at this time".  Maybe a public explanation would hinder some police operation?  Perhaps a public explanation would exacerbate some threat?  Could it be politically inopportune?  Fair enough, but aside from MurrayM's post we are kind of left in the dark.

 

 

Maybe they do not want to jeopardise intelligence and current investigations. 


MurrayM
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  #2214921 11-Apr-2019 11:38
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MikeB4:

 

Maybe they do not want to jeopardise intelligence and current investigations. 

 

 

Makes sense to me. Also you don't want to cause a panic. If the police said they had intelligence of an upcoming attack then people would demand to know where and when so they can avoid it. If the police declined to release that info and an attack happened then people would blame the police. You can't really say "We know an attack is coming but we won't say where or when"!


gzt

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  #2214942 11-Apr-2019 12:22
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mclean:

MurrayM: ...Apparently the police said that based on overseas experience a follow-up attack usually happened about six weeks after the initial attack. This could be in either retaliation or support of the original attack...


In support of the original attack?  That would be some sort of anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic attacking returned servicemen and their families?


From the news last week I understand there were a number of abusive and threatening calls at the time there was a vague plan for an Islamic prayer at one of the services. Perhaps your scenario is not so far fetched for a crazy.

gzt

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  #2214983 11-Apr-2019 12:41
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networkn:

MikeB4:


As for the Islamic prayer, in the spirit of inclusiveness it is fitting also I know veterans that are Islamic.



I know lots of veterans who are all sorts of different religions, creeds, races and other things on top, but those people are not represented. 


Are we going to include Islamic prayer this year only as a result of the attacks, or every year going forward? 


I wonder if the Muslim/Islamic community sought this or is something that someone thought they would do on their own accord. Is it actually the answer to a question that wasn't being asked? A little like the name change of a sports team.


 


In one case in the news it was requested by a non-muslim nz afghan war veteran specifically in response to the events in christchurch.

MurrayM
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  #2214986 11-Apr-2019 12:45
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gzt:
mclean:

 

MurrayM: ...Apparently the police said that based on overseas experience a follow-up attack usually happened about six weeks after the initial attack. This could be in either retaliation or support of the original attack...

 

In support of the original attack?  That would be some sort of anti-Islamic white supremacist lunatic attacking returned servicemen and their families?

 


From the news last week I understand there were a number of abusive and threatening calls at the time there was a vague plan for an Islamic prayer at one of the services. Perhaps your scenario is not so far fetched for a crazy.

 

Indeed, crazy people tend not to think rationally and what seems wrong to us might make perfect sense to them.


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