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  # 2230621 4-May-2019 08:14
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The only direct debits on my account are for insurance, nothing else. Reason I use direct debit for those companies is I found they don't accept payment by any other method other than credit card. Everything else = internet banking.


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  # 2230665 4-May-2019 08:56
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I had same thing happen, The simplest way was just to close the account and reopen a new one and adjust any bill and wages to the new account number.


 
 
 
 




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  # 2230785 4-May-2019 13:03
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Stu1:
frednz:

 

Stu1: Should be able to cancel over the phone with most banks as call recorded. The DD is a payment method it doesnt cancel the contract between the customer and the company. The bank I worked for we would advise customers that it could still be reloaded if they cancelled at the banks end but not with the merchant .I can see the company view if they provide a service they should still be paid . The most common complaint used to be gym membership contracts or kids using dad's credit card to verify their age to watch online porn

 

 

 

Thanks, but don't you think that cancelling the services received from the merchant would also mean that you have automatically cancelled the direct debit authority you originally gave to the merchant to pay for those services?

 

 

 

Of course, if there is any possibility a merchant can reload a direct debit authority after you have cancelled it with your bank, wouldn't the simple answer be to close that bank account?

 



Not in all cases a common example is tv shopping where you buy products and agree to 4 payment amounts of x. The merchant sends you the goods you can’t expect to cancel the DD payment after one payment you still have to pay what’s owed. Customers have in the past closed transactional accounts to prevent the account being debited unfortunately a lot of them in the case of gyms end up with credit defaults as they still have a membership contract with a gym. I would never pay by DD given the amount of issues I saw working in the bank

 

Yes, if you contract to buy a product and agree to 4 payment amounts of x, then it wouldn't usually be appropriate to cancel the DD after just one payment. But, in my view, the DD is only a payment method, and the bank and the merchant shouldn't be concerned if I were to cancel the DD after one payment, provided that I continued to make the payments using some other method agreeable to the merchant.

 

In the case I quoted at the start of this thread, the circumstances were completely different in that there was a dispute about an amount charged after the contract had been terminated. The merchant sent out an invoice saying that it would be charged to the bank account using the direct debit authority even though the bank had cancelled this authority. But, if this DD hadn't been cancelled, the disputed amount would have gone against the bank account because the invoice was received by the customer after the date on which the merchant attempted to use the DD! Even then, the bank insisted that the merchant had the authority to reinstate the DD and have another go at charging it against the bank account, even though the amount was in dispute.

 

So, it seems that it can be really difficult to cancel a DD if the bank is prepared to honour a reinstated DD without first getting the agreement of the customer to do this. The customer mightn't even know that the merchant has reinstated the DD and might only find out when an unexpected charge appears on the bank statement. So, it seems that you need to instruct the bank in writing to cancel the original direct debit authority and also any subsequent DDs that may be raised by the merchant. If you can't do this, then the only remedy is to close the bank account and deal directly with the merchant over any disputed amounts.

 

And, of course, with a DD, the merchant can usually charge price increases and unexpected items to the bank account without getting the agreement of the customer to do this.  

 

 


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  # 2230808 4-May-2019 13:54
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Is it really that hard to manage your variable bill payments manually? All you need to do is set up a folder in your email client called 'outstanding invoices' and then set up a weekly reminder on your preferred device to prompt you to process payment for anything sitting in that folder.


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  # 2230810 4-May-2019 14:10
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alasta:

Is it really that hard to manage your variable bill payments manually? All you need to do is set up a folder in your email client called 'outstanding invoices' and then set up a weekly reminder on your preferred device to prompt you to process payment for anything sitting in that folder.

 

 

Some places refuse to email invoices because of "security reasons" and will only send you a notification that your statement is available to view, so its a manual hassle to go to their site, jump thru pointless security theater to get the pdf and then deal with it.

 

 

Of course this is nothing to do with security, they want to make it hard to get the information so you are more likly to forget to pay them and get a late fee. But they will post you a statement, unencrypted in a paper envelope with their name on the outside to an insecure roadside metal box for $1 or something.




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  # 2230955 4-May-2019 18:53
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I think what happens in some case is the mercant retains the original form and sends that form in again to re-load the DD authority. As the form is still valid I assume the bank is obliged to accept the form and load the DD authority (even though they may know perfectly well the customer doesn't want it). Not sure if DD authority forms have a expiry date on them to prevent setting up a DD from the same form?

 

Banks have recently started introducing $5 set up fees for DD—BNZ and Kiwibank are two I know of. I am certain they used to be free with many banks previously. So I don't think I'll be loading amy more DDs against my account anytime soon if I can pay by other means.


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  # 2230983 4-May-2019 22:03
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KiwiSurfer:

 

I think what happens in some case is the mercant retains the original form and sends that form in again to re-load the DD authority. As the form is still valid I assume the bank is obliged to accept the form and load the DD authority (even though they may know perfectly well the customer doesn't want it). Not sure if DD authority forms have a expiry date on them to prevent setting up a DD from the same form?

 

 

There are three types of direct debit initiators:

 

1. Standard - relies on paperwork and has to submit the original dd form to the bank for them to load. Once cancelled they no longer have the original form to resubmit. Can take a while to get setup though. 

 

2. Preferred. Still requires paperwork to be signed but is not required to submit it to the bank. Instead the direct debit authority is automatically created when they try and make a direct debit deduction from the bank account. However if called upon (e.g. in a dispute), they are required to produce the original paperwork as evidence. Must faster. Harder to get approval for this from your bank. 

 

3. Paperless. Like preferred but no paperwork required. Usually voice recorded though as evidence (e.g call centre type arrangements). Really only used for large corporations with proven processes.

 

Each direct debit initiator has their own authority number e.g. 065478 (just made that up). When a DD is loaded onto your account only that number is loaded and only one DD can be loaded with that number. What people often don't realise is if they have two loans to say GE FInance and two direct debits and they phone their bank to cancel the direct debit to them because they've paid one loan off, if the DD is a standard DDI then cancelling the DD will stop ALL payments to that company (i.e. the second payment will stop). For the standard DDI they will have to get new paperwork completed and resubmitted to the banks. Preferred and paperless don't have that problem as the DD authority is created when they try accessing your account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2230984 4-May-2019 22:04
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Sounds like we could use something like the Direct Debit Guarantee that UK banks have.





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  # 2230991 4-May-2019 23:44
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This thread is extremely interesting, and about a week too late for me.

I recently upgraded to a 2 degrees kiwi hero plan. While in store I was asked if I wanted to pay by DD. Figured what the hey, sure, it'll save me having to muck around paying the bill each month. I was asked my bank account number watched that entered on their terminal, and that was it done.

Certainly doesn't seem to fit any of the three methods mentioned above (except maybe paperless, but there were certainly no recorded conversations) - doesn't seem fully legit now I've read through here

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  # 2231033 5-May-2019 08:51
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It was amazing how helpful the bank became when I asked for a bank cheque for the $25,000 balance so I could close the account and walk across the mall to open a new one.  They just created a new Electronic account, transferred all my D/C and other AP's while I waited.

 

The downside, I lost access to my on-line history and did not elect to print multiple years of statements at $x per page.

 

So, the only AP I now have is for power account and all runs smoothly - for now....

 

 


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  # 2231034 5-May-2019 09:04
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This thread reminded me of when Jeremy Clarkson posted his bank account number and somebody set up a direct debit to a charity.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574781/Jeremy-Clarkson-eats-his-words-over-ID-theft.html

 

 








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  # 2231047 5-May-2019 09:41
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gbwelly:

This thread reminded me of when Jeremy Clarkson posted his bank account number and somebody set up a direct debit to a charity.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574781/Jeremy-Clarkson-eats-his-words-over-ID-theft.html


 


Although his point that account details are on every cheque you write and given to everyone who makes you an electronic payment, is quite correct. This is more an illustration of it being too easy to set up direct debits

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  # 2231055 5-May-2019 09:55
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This might have been covered, but...


Your bank CANNOT cancel a direct debit.


A direct debit is an agreement between the company (billing party) and you. You have to notify the billing party (usually in writing) that you have revoked the authority.
The revocation won't (can't) happen immediately, the systems are automated and payments are normally planned days in advance.

The agreement should explain all of this and will specify a notice period.

Once you have notified them accordingly and the notice period has passed, they no longer have the legal right to use the direct debit.


If you want total control you need to use automatic payments or pay manually.




Location: Dunedin

 


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  # 2231084 5-May-2019 11:24
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Ge0rge: Certainly doesn't seem to fit any of the three methods mentioned above (except maybe paperless, but there were certainly no recorded conversations) - doesn't seem fully legit now I've read through here

 

Fits in with the paperless process above. Auckland Transport has this too. Just type in any account number in your online AT account and off you go. I've seen this elsewhere too possibly with Spark and/or 2degrees. Don't think a recorded converstation is a hard requirement—just some proof that the organisation has controls in palce. Perhaps they pass on the name to the bank so they can check it or something like that? I hope anyway.


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  # 2231105 5-May-2019 12:43
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shk292:
gbwelly:

This thread reminded me of when Jeremy Clarkson posted his bank account number and somebody set up a direct debit to a charity.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574781/Jeremy-Clarkson-eats-his-words-over-ID-theft.html


 


Although his point that account details are on every cheque you write and given to everyone who makes you an electronic payment, is quite correct. This is more an illustration of it being too easy to set up direct debits


I did one once where I typed my bank account number in online. I could’ve entered anyone’s bank account number. As above it’s not like bank account numbers are kept to yourself like PINs.
Seems to easy.

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