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832 posts

Ultimate Geek
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# 250802 26-May-2019 11:23
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Sadly my elderly dad has fallen for one of the many phishing scams.

 

 

 

He said a helpful person rang and said he had suspicious account activity and for him to enter his details. Yes , everything is ok, they said and cleaned him out of his last 13k. Luckily he had already blown most of his money on model trains by this stage. 

 

 

 

I know the bank will have a clause about giving out your details so they can legally walk away and wipe their hands.

 

But whats the actual policy out there ? Has he got any chance of getting his money back.


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Mr Snotty
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  # 2245819 26-May-2019 11:47
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Afraid not. Depending on how the payment is made there is no chance of getting the money back.

 

Banks are businesses - they're not going to just dish out money out of their own pockets every time somebody gets scammed. Many of these scams operate in such a way that it is impossible that the money can be traced / reversed.





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  # 2245836 26-May-2019 12:31
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Maybe they should start their own version of this

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/may/04/bank-victims-likely-to-be-offered-fairer-treatment

 

Even though it still has a get out clause or three, its (slightly) better than nothing.





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  # 2246134 26-May-2019 21:24
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I know Westpac are so convinced by their online security that they actually guarantee that if anyone ever manages to steal your money via it, they will refund every cent.

 

Obviously that is a bit different from falling victim to some elaborate con.

 

Some people you feel sorry for - some, like the guy who paid off a fictitious IRD debt by purchasing Apple Store gift cards and reading the numbers over the phone to the "IRD staff", not so much....








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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2246691 27-May-2019 21:28
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He's a westpac customer but these scams usually dont count as someone stealing your money.

 

Upon reflection it seems to be there's a problem with 'the system' that makes customer's accounts vulnerable. There needs to be a way to add more checks and balances to safeguard online account activity.

 

From all accounts this problem is widespread and the banks basically wipe their hands of it.

 

 


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  # 2246696 27-May-2019 21:59
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They could use a system like what ASB have. You get sent a text message asking you to confirm the payment. It has the payment amount and a 1 time code in the message as well. You have to type the 1 time code into the Internet banking payment confirmation page to approve the payment.

This alone makes a scam far more difficult. As the scammers need to convince someone that a payment is necessary, and that a large payment is also neccessary. Instead of only obtaining login details.





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  # 2246698 27-May-2019 22:11
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It depends on which methods the money goes out by too, certain transactions can be frozen if fraud is suspected if the funds are still held by their partners. Best to ask the bank and also what options they can offer you and your dad in the future.


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  # 2246700 27-May-2019 22:22
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Aredwood: They could use a system like what ASB have. You get sent a text message asking you to confirm the payment. It has the payment amount and a 1 time code in the message as well. You have to type the 1 time code into the Internet banking payment confirmation page to approve the payment.

This alone makes a scam far more difficult. As the scammers need to convince someone that a payment is necessary, and that a large payment is also neccessary. Instead of only obtaining login details.

 

ANZ have a similar system but I can't recall if they have the payment amount. IIRC BNZ give you a small printed card with a grid and gives you co-ordinates - safer but more of a hassle. 

 

There are ways around this - some fairly easy, others a bit harder but it does involve a bit more work from the scammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2246701 27-May-2019 22:29
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Westpac should have prompted for the 'secret question' stuff for a transaction of this size. Mine does when paying new payee's large amounts. Have you actually reported it to the bank? If so what did they say?

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  # 2246720 28-May-2019 00:54
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Start a Go-FundMe / Give-a-little page and spread the work on social media?

 

There's many people collecting money for less worth causes and you'd be amazed how many are quite happy to give $5 or so to a complete stranger in need.

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 




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  # 2246826 28-May-2019 09:47
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loceff13:

 

It depends on which methods the money goes out by too, certain transactions can be frozen if fraud is suspected if the funds are still held by their partners. Best to ask the bank and also what options they can offer you and your dad in the future.

 

 

Yeaaahhhh, he's not going to have this problem in the future cos he's down to his last $100.

 

 

 

But you got me thinking, isn't it overseas transfers that are the problem? They could be blocked for most people.


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  # 2246829 28-May-2019 09:52
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elpenguino:

 

He's a westpac customer but these scams usually dont count as someone stealing your money.

 

Upon reflection it seems to be there's a problem with 'the system' that makes customer's accounts vulnerable. There needs to be a way to add more checks and balances to safeguard online account activity.

 

From all accounts this problem is widespread and the banks basically wipe their hands of it.

 

 

 

 

What checks and balances would you implement? To the bank, he transferred 13K, seemingly legitimately. Had they have called him to ask him, he likely would have authorized it, correct? 

 

 

 

I am really sorry for your fathers loss of savings, truly. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. 

 

 


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  # 2246834 28-May-2019 09:54
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Aredwood: They could use a system like what ASB have. You get sent a text message asking you to confirm the payment. It has the payment amount and a 1 time code in the message as well. You have to type the 1 time code into the Internet banking payment confirmation page to approve the payment.

This alone makes a scam far more difficult. As the scammers need to convince someone that a payment is necessary, and that a large payment is also neccessary. Instead of only obtaining login details.

 

If he was prepared to give his login and password, and felt it was a legitimate transfer, the extra step would have been approved. Potentially, had a staff member of called him, they might have warned him and he might have managed to walk away from it, but honestly, that's not a 100% guarantee. 

 

It's an unfortunate situation, but really, the only real protection is education, and even then, it's not always effective. 

 

I have had very intelligent and usually security conscious customers scammed of large sums from a moment's inattention. 


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  # 2246851 28-May-2019 10:42
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Unfortunately, there are still many staff members (and policies) within the banking industry (and other industries) whom do not understand that calling up a customer and asking them to divulge security information right from the get-go is not okay.

 

First, the customer must ensure they're actually talking to the bank! It's an education thing, and that hits both sides of the fence.

 

Get a name/department/location/etc and call the banks main help/support desk (check the back of your bank's EFTPOS card for the number, or look up the number yourself) and ask for the person you spoke to by name and department. If it's legit but the help desk can't help put you through, they're doing it wrong.





Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2246875 28-May-2019 11:05
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networkn:

 

elpenguino:

 

He's a westpac customer but these scams usually dont count as someone stealing your money.

 

Upon reflection it seems to be there's a problem with 'the system' that makes customer's accounts vulnerable. There needs to be a way to add more checks and balances to safeguard online account activity.

 

From all accounts this problem is widespread and the banks basically wipe their hands of it.

 

 

 

 

What checks and balances would you implement? To the bank, he transferred 13K, seemingly legitimately. Had they have called him to ask him, he likely would have authorized it, correct? 

 

 

I don't know what to suggest. But what we're dealing with basically is a human problem. If that problem resulted in aircraft crashing into towns or people cutting off your wrong limb by mistake we'd collectively devise a way to do something about it.

 

Because the bank can push the loss onto the customer they can carry on.

 

 

I am really sorry for your fathers loss of savings, truly. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. 

 

 

Thanks for that.


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  # 2246879 28-May-2019 11:11
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elpenguino:

 

I don't know what to suggest. But what we're dealing with basically is a human problem. If that problem resulted in aircraft crashing into towns or people cutting off your wrong limb by mistake we'd collectively devise a way to do something about it.

 

Because the bank can push the loss onto the customer they can carry on.

 



 

Again, trying not to sound unsympathetic, but how is the bank pushing the loss to the customer? The customer of his own choice transferred money into another persons account.

 

The loss is the customers and you are trying to push it onto the bank. The bank didn't fail your father in my view. About the only thing that could maybe have helped is a 24 hour stand down on all transfers over say $1000, however, I know many people that would transfer those amounts regularly and would find that incredibly frustrating. 

 

To prevent aircraft falling out of the sky due to *pilot* error, pilots are required to spend *many* hours training. A relatively small amount of training by comparison may well have avoided this unfortunate situation. It's obviously easy to say in hindsight. 

 

What we could potentially do, is run some national ad campaigns raising awareness of these types of scams. It won't catch everyone though and it still doesn't help the confused or intimidated, or temporarily unaware. 

 

 

 

 


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