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18324 posts

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  # 2247990 29-May-2019 19:50
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Loismustdye:
As with all these cases, the dhb/ministries etc like to include “creep” in their statements to the public to make the offer seem much better than what it is. And they always argue that this “creep” is a cost in the contract offer, again to make their viewpoint more agreeable to the public.

Creep is the steps or yearly increments within the contract
The teachers contract has in it annual pay increase increments to recognise increasing experience up to say 6-7 years experience.
In this case there will be a lot of teachers on the lower rungs of the pay scale, so over the course of the 3year contract they will go up a step in the pay scale each year, with each of those increments having the % increase applied as well.
So when the ministry says some teachers getting $10k a year as part of the contract, they are using the steps within the existing contract are part of their offer, a wee bit dishonest in all fairness.

 

Tks for that, I suspected a bit of marketing liberties. I googled today, it showed the 10k as being x amount of primary teachers, which means x amount of others are not 10k

 

But I still stand behind "there is no more money" But I respect those here with heartfelt stories. 


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  # 2248000 29-May-2019 19:53
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KiwiSurfer:

 

quickymart:

 

Dial111:

 

I am 100% in full support of Teachers if it will help my child be in an environment where her teacher cares about their job and will nurture her to her best abilities. 

 

 

 

However, I've lost count on how many strikes that have happened this year and it is really starting to affect my pocket now with organising daycare which isn't cheap and/or using my annual leave to accommodate.

 

 

This, today was majorly expensive for me as I had to get someone in at short notice.

 

 

Sorry to hear that. Did your child(ren)'s school not give you advance notice of the strike via their newsletters etc?

 

 

Yea I don't buy the short notice thing. Considering it was announced in the media at least two weeks ago and the publicity it has got since, it was impossible to miss!


 
 
 
 




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  # 2248001 29-May-2019 19:54
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One thing the unions aren't asking for, which they should, is some sort of regional adjustment. 

 

$80,000 a year in Bluff is not the same as $80,000 a year in central Auckland.


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  # 2248005 29-May-2019 19:57
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tdgeek:

Loismustdye:
As with all these cases, the dhb/ministries etc like to include “creep” in their statements to the public to make the offer seem much better than what it is. And they always argue that this “creep” is a cost in the contract offer, again to make their viewpoint more agreeable to the public.

Creep is the steps or yearly increments within the contract
The teachers contract has in it annual pay increase increments to recognise increasing experience up to say 6-7 years experience.
In this case there will be a lot of teachers on the lower rungs of the pay scale, so over the course of the 3year contract they will go up a step in the pay scale each year, with each of those increments having the % increase applied as well.
So when the ministry says some teachers getting $10k a year as part of the contract, they are using the steps within the existing contract are part of their offer, a wee bit dishonest in all fairness.


Tks for that, I suspected a bit of marketing liberties. I googled today, it showed the 10k as being x amount of primary teachers, which means x amount of others are not 10k


But I still stand behind "there is no more money" But I respect those here with heartfelt stories. 



No worries.
FWIW I’m not a teacher, but have been involved in negotiations previously for my job in another public sector. Nothing frustrated me more when the employer would say to us (or the public) that their offer was a lot more than what it was, trying to state that creep was a cost in the new contract.

A bit off topic but on one occasion they did suggest to us that even if there was no % increase, the new contract was still a cost increase to them because of creep, and more or less implying that we should take a pay cut in order to keep the new contract “cost neautral”.

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  # 2248006 29-May-2019 20:00
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blackjack17:

 

One thing the unions aren't asking for, which they should, is some sort of regional adjustment. 

 

$80,000 a year in Bluff is not the same as $80,000 a year in central Auckland.

 

 

Why not?

 

80k in Bluff is a better financial lifestyle, in AKL its a better weather lifestyle. 

 

Your choice


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  # 2248007 29-May-2019 20:01
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chevrolux:

KiwiSurfer:


quickymart:


Dial111:


I am 100% in full support of Teachers if it will help my child be in an environment where her teacher cares about their job and will nurture her to her best abilities. 


 


However, I've lost count on how many strikes that have happened this year and it is really starting to affect my pocket now with organising daycare which isn't cheap and/or using my annual leave to accommodate.



This, today was majorly expensive for me as I had to get someone in at short notice.



Sorry to hear that. Did your child(ren)'s school not give you advance notice of the strike via their newsletters etc?



Yea I don't buy the short notice thing. Considering it was announced in the media at least two weeks ago and the publicity it has got since, it was impossible to miss!



To be fair I don’t think it was announced more than two weeks ago.
Isnt’t 14 days notice the legal requirement for issuing of strike notice, and no union worth their salt would announce industrial action before they were legally required to in order to cause more disruption to their employer .

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  # 2248016 29-May-2019 20:22
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Slightly off topic, but I've wondered if the civil sector may be a factor on Auckland house pricing. IE, can't get police, or teachers etc to fill roles in Auckland.

 

Nonetheless, in regards to the strikes, I'm sympathetic but biased, an ex was a primary school teacher and it seemed like hard work. She had kids turning up hungry and couldn't identify pictures of vegetables. 

 

My father is about to retire from secondary teaching, he is one of the many boomers not being replaced. He's also coached cricket and rugby the entire time. He's often said new teachers won't take a sports team (which he thinks is fair enough) so there are simply fewer and fewer sports teams. 

 

He thinks it will move to a four week holiday like most jobs at some point, whether kids are there for all of the day or not remains to be seen, as it's them that would struggle with 48 weeks of school.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2248017 29-May-2019 20:25
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chevrolux:

 

KiwiSurfer:

 

quickymart:

 

Dial111: I am 100% in full support of Teachers if it will help my child be in an environment where her teacher cares about their job and will nurture her to her best abilities.

 

However, I've lost count on how many strikes that have happened this year and it is really starting to affect my pocket now with organising daycare which isn't cheap and/or using my annual leave to accommodate. 

 

This, today was majorly expensive for me as I had to get someone in at short notice. 

 

Sorry to hear that. Did your child(ren)'s school not give you advance notice of the strike via their newsletters etc? 

 

Yea I don't buy the short notice thing. Considering it was announced in the media at least two weeks ago and the publicity it has got since, it was impossible to miss! 

 

Or maybe:
- the person they were originally planning to use suddenly couldn't make it?
- they'd applied for some leave to cover child care themselves but it got denied?
- something else altogether?

 

A little lateral thinking wouldn't hurt, instead of jumping to judgement.


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  # 2248033 29-May-2019 20:42
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Dratsab's right - I thought I had something organised for today, but it fell through at the last minute.


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  # 2248129 30-May-2019 06:49
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Can this be true? It was posted on Facebook yesterday.

 

I find it hard to believe that *any* fulltime teacher is below minimum wage.

 

And it is datestamped 28 May 2019, apparently before being sent from Min of Ed. This seems unbelievably fast work by NZ Post.

 

And incredibly poor timing by the Ministry to send this out just before the strike.

 

 




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  # 2248133 30-May-2019 07:20
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Here are the pay scales of secondary teachers

https://www.ppta.org.nz/collective-agreements/secondary-teachers-collective-agreement-stca/part-4-remuneration-your-pay/

If you scroll down to untrained teacher i.e a LAT lowest rate is 32600 629 a week or 15.67 an hour (40 hour week)


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  # 2248147 30-May-2019 08:05
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blackjack17: Here are the pay scales of secondary teachers

https://www.ppta.org.nz/collective-agreements/secondary-teachers-collective-agreement-stca/part-4-remuneration-your-pay/

If you scroll down to untrained teacher i.e a LAT lowest rate is 32600 629 a week or 15.67 an hour (40 hour week)

 

 

 

Interesting.  They'd have to earn 32600 in 46 weeks per year for that wage to meet current minimums. 

 

 


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  # 2248153 30-May-2019 08:17
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Do I think teachers deserve more money? Some do. Not all. Why should a poor performing teacher get a pay increase? 

 

Do I feel sympathy? not really. A lot of people work long hours and feel underpaid. It's not unique to teachers. Everyone knows being a teacher doesn't pay that well, but they made the decision to become one.

 

Starting salaries around $47K are reasonable for most industries. $75K (currently) at the upper end is a little low, but its not terrible.

 

I think the money offered so far is reasonable, increasing the starting rate to over $50K and mid $80's at the high end is pretty good. 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  # 2248179 30-May-2019 08:47
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MileHighKiwi:

 

Do I think teachers deserve more money? Some do. Not all. Why should a poor performing teacher get a pay increase? 

 

Do I feel sympathy? not really. A lot of people work long hours and feel underpaid. It's not unique to teachers. Everyone knows being a teacher doesn't pay that well, but they made the decision to become one.

 

Starting salaries around $47K are reasonable for most industries. $75K (currently) at the upper end is a little low, but its not terrible.

 

I think the money offered so far is reasonable, increasing the starting rate to over $50K and mid $80's at the high end is pretty good. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bit of a ramble

 

There are a number of issues and the current offer doesn't address them.

 

Some of these issues are,

 

  • workload and pastoral issues have increased. 
  • class sizes have increased
  • Teacher numbers are declining (or least not increasing at the rate they needed to), something like 45% of teachers are 50 and over and 21% in their 60s and 70s and half of all teachers that train leave within 5 years. 

The media is focused on pay (makes great headlines) and while pay is a big issue it isn't the only one.  

 

It is easy to say if you don't like it leave and find another job but most teachers especially those that have been at it for more than 5 years enjoy their job, but they have seen their pay decrease in real terms.  Should they have fought for better conditions earlier under national?  Hell yes, one of the many issues I have with the PPTA. 

 

Purely from a pay perspective.  My wife gets a 2% salary increase each year as of right (not including bonuses).  The government is currently offering 3% to teachers after receiving on average of 1% increases over the past 9 years or so.

 

 


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  # 2248192 30-May-2019 08:58
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MileHighKiwi:

 

Do I think teachers deserve more money? Some do. Not all. Why should a poor performing teacher get a pay increase? 

 

 

 

 

The tricky part with performance related to my ex. She taught new entrants, so under the old National Standards she was having to mark kids that just started school, Not Achieved. The kids would start about their birthday, so in one classroom she had wildly different abilities. The answer would be experienced teachers would refuse to take new entrants if pay was performance based. At high school, who would take the 'naughty' class? For those of us that went to big enough high schools, there was always one in every year group, and they were usually looked after mainly by a very strong type of teacher. Who would take them if you're pay was based on their results?


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