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  # 2267009 29-Jun-2019 21:18
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Mistenfuru:

 

Our best bet to combat Climate change from New Zealand is to come up with better technologies we can provide to much bigger nations to help them reduce their Carbon/waste output

 



We're 21st in the world for per capita greenhouse gas emissions. We punch FAR above our weight.

We can't say we are too small and don't matter because every person on Earth can say that.....and we all then do nothing. That's not right, either.

It's very likely the civilisation we are currently part of will collapse in about 25 years. How? Drought reduces food and water. sealevel rise forces people to move....and the places they move to might not be very welcoming. Syria's collapse was a dry run and look at the trouble that caused. We will see movements much greater than that in the not-distant future. That's pretty much already locked in...and we're still actively making it worse. Most people alive today will still be alive then. Why they wouldn't want to avoid that......I don't know.

 

 





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  # 2267040 29-Jun-2019 22:43
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Is it worth mentioning the record heat wave currently affecting Europe? I never thought I would see 45 degree temperatures in France. I wonder when it will hit 50.

 

 

 

 





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  # 2267214 30-Jun-2019 11:25
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Linuxluver:

 

tdgeek:

 

Thanks, I'll digest this later, but probably related is the news that Chennai has a severe water shortage. You would expect that as ice retreats in the Himilayas, and that the snow cap slowly rises in altitude, that the aquifers got to a point where the slowly increasing demand has quietly rolled past the slowly decreasing topup

 

 

Chennai is far from the Himalayan watershed. Anyone along the Ganges will be affected, certainly, but Andra Pradesh and Chennai are too far south. They will suffer from the failure of the monsoons.

 

 

Ah ok. What would feed their aquifers though?

 

I haven't studied the effect of CC on the monsoons. More moisture up there equal's more weather, but it can also mean the weather moves. They may still get monsoons but very damaging, or get low minions, hard to know. I'll look this up later


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  # 2267217 30-Jun-2019 11:29
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Linuxluver:

 



It's very likely the civilisation we are currently part of will collapse in about 25 years. How? Drought reduces food and water. sealevel rise forces people to move....and the places they move to might not be very welcoming. Syria's collapse was a dry run and look at the trouble that caused. We will see movements much greater than that in the not-distant future. That's pretty much already locked in...and we're still actively making it worse. Most people alive today will still be alive then. Why they wouldn't want to avoid that......I don't know.

 

 

 

 

I think it will be much slower than that. Ironically, if the change was much faster we would do something, but as its a slow burn, we wont. We are up 0.8C? At 2 this happens at 3 this happens at 4 this happens. Thats probably a long way off. There is a doco that estimates what it will be like at each level. Not pretty


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  # 2267435 30-Jun-2019 19:19
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tdgeek:

 

Linuxluver:

 



It's very likely the civilisation we are currently part of will collapse in about 25 years. How? Drought reduces food and water. sealevel rise forces people to move....and the places they move to might not be very welcoming. Syria's collapse was a dry run and look at the trouble that caused. We will see movements much greater than that in the not-distant future. That's pretty much already locked in...and we're still actively making it worse. Most people alive today will still be alive then. Why they wouldn't want to avoid that......I don't know.

 

 

I think it will be much slower than that. Ironically, if the change was much faster we would do something, but as its a slow burn, we wont. We are up 0.8C? At 2 this happens at 3 this happens at 4 this happens. Thats probably a long way off. There is a doco that estimates what it will be like at each level. Not pretty

 



It seems to be about tipping points. Things may proceed slowly for a considerable time, then a series of related changes may happen in months and the whole thing goes to hell in handcart.

For example. Ice melts in the North American western cordillera. Rivers then aren't fed year round from glaciers....and become seasonal. This forces communities to find water elsewhere or be reduced in size as people leave. Agriculture will be affected are the very moment the human population is larger than ever. We are already seeing this in Central America. The "caravans" are running away from corruption and gangs....but the failure of crops is a big factor, too. The collapse of the pollinators (bees, etc) is already affecting agriculture. The Far North is now roughly 3.5C warmer than usual on an ongoing basis....while the world as whole is struggling to stay below 1.5C of warming. I reckon that ship has sailed.....it's only a matter of time now. The warmer Arctic is melting the permafrost across Siberia, Alaska and northern Canada and methane plus carbon dioxide is rapidly being released. One estimate I heard was that their greenhouse gas release in a year or two will equal ALL of human greenhouse gas release in the same period. Effectively doubling emissions......and we can't stop them......Meanwhile the jet stream is weakening and the flow of fresh water into the north Atlantic is slowing down the Gulf Stream........

So much *already* happening all at once.....and we are still increasing our emissions. Ever watch a pot of water boil? Not much going on until reaches the 100C mark....and then there is a state change. It will be more like that.

Look at us.....our economies quiver and quake when numbers in computers go wrong. Imagine what happens when food doesn't grow in sufficient quantity and storms are regularly wrecking things as fast as we can fix them. Plus many jobs are being automated...making more people vulnerable completely aside from the climate. At some point we will have to abandon money as we know it now. It gets in the way of getting things done that need doing. Things may be just fine for 23 years......and then turn to sh*t in the next two.








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  # 2267474 30-Jun-2019 20:13
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Linuxluver:

 


It seems to be about tipping points. Things may proceed slowly for a considerable time, then a series of related changes may happen in months and the whole thing goes to hell in handcart.

For example. Ice melts in the North American western cordillera. Rivers then aren't fed year round from glaciers....and become seasonal. This forces communities to find water elsewhere or be reduced in size as people leave. Agriculture will be affected are the very moment the human population is larger than ever. We are already seeing this in Central America. The "caravans" are running away from corruption and gangs....but the failure of crops is a big factor, too. The collapse of the pollinators (bees, etc) is already affecting agriculture. The Far North is now roughly 3.5C warmer than usual on an ongoing basis....while the world as whole is struggling to stay below 1.5C of warming. I reckon that ship has sailed.....it's only a matter of time now. The warmer Arctic is melting the permafrost across Siberia, Alaska and northern Canada and methane plus carbon dioxide is rapidly being released. One estimate I heard was that their greenhouse gas release in a year or two will equal ALL of human greenhouse gas release in the same period. Effectively doubling emissions......and we can't stop them......Meanwhile the jet stream is weakening and the flow of fresh water into the north Atlantic is slowing down the Gulf Stream........

So much *already* happening all at once.....and we are still increasing our emissions. Ever watch a pot of water boil? Not much going on until reaches the 100C mark....and then there is a state change. It will be more like that.

Look at us.....our economies quiver and quake when numbers in computers go wrong. Imagine what happens when food doesn't grow in sufficient quantity and storms are regularly wrecking things as fast as we can fix them. Plus many jobs are being automated...making more people vulnerable completely aside from the climate. At some point we will have to abandon money as we know it now. It gets in the way of getting things done that need doing. Things may be just fine for 23 years......and then turn to sh*t in the next two.


 

I don't know enough about climate change to either agree or disagree with very alarmist predictions about likely future tipping points. I'm no climate change denier, but I prefer to read lots of scientific articles in order to provide a balanced view and to also provide links to source material so people can see where I got my information from.

 

For example, this article warns against "freaking out":

 

Marvel cautions that while the tipping point found in the new paper is interesting, it “doesn’t merit freaking out”. Existing projections are enough of a concern, she adds: “We already have more than enough reasons to avoid hurling ourselves to an Eocene climate. Let’s try to not get to 1,200ppm.”

 

Dessler similarly cautions that the results are still quite uncertain, telling Carbon Brief that he is “not worried yet”. He suggests that the study’s conclusions should be viewed “as ‘low confidence’ until more work is done on this and other groups/models can reproduce it.”

 

The tipping point identified in this new paper should be easy to avoid with any sort of concerted efforts to mitigate climate change, even if they fall far short of Paris Agreement current goals of limiting temperature rise to 1.5C or 2C above pre-industrial levels.

 

 


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  # 2267613 1-Jul-2019 07:30
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Linuxluver:

 



It seems to be about tipping points. Things may proceed slowly for a considerable time, then a series of related changes may happen in months and the whole thing goes to hell in handcart.

For example. Ice melts in the North American western cordillera. Rivers then aren't fed year round from glaciers....and become seasonal. This forces communities to find water elsewhere or be reduced in size as people leave. Agriculture will be affected are the very moment the human population is larger than ever. We are already seeing this in Central America. The "caravans" are running away from corruption and gangs....but the failure of crops is a big factor, too. The collapse of the pollinators (bees, etc) is already affecting agriculture. The Far North is now roughly 3.5C warmer than usual on an ongoing basis....while the world as whole is struggling to stay below 1.5C of warming. I reckon that ship has sailed.....it's only a matter of time now. The warmer Arctic is melting the permafrost across Siberia, Alaska and northern Canada and methane plus carbon dioxide is rapidly being released. One estimate I heard was that their greenhouse gas release in a year or two will equal ALL of human greenhouse gas release in the same period. Effectively doubling emissions......and we can't stop them......Meanwhile the jet stream is weakening and the flow of fresh water into the north Atlantic is slowing down the Gulf Stream........

So much *already* happening all at once.....and we are still increasing our emissions. Ever watch a pot of water boil? Not much going on until reaches the 100C mark....and then there is a state change. It will be more like that.

Look at us.....our economies quiver and quake when numbers in computers go wrong. Imagine what happens when food doesn't grow in sufficient quantity and storms are regularly wrecking things as fast as we can fix them. Plus many jobs are being automated...making more people vulnerable completely aside from the climate. At some point we will have to abandon money as we know it now. It gets in the way of getting things done that need doing. Things may be just fine for 23 years......and then turn to sh*t in the next two.




 

 

I agree fully with those outcomes. I think the next 10 years will tell us how fast it will happen. I still believe from what Ive read that it will be slow, and it will ramp up later. Russia is key though, that could be all bets off. As to the tipping point we don't know when that is or maybe, when it was. I guess they could calculate the rise in temp and the amount of emissions and graph that against the C02 levels to see if the temp has risen more now per emissions than earlier

 

Is there much being done on capturing carbon? Dont hear much on that


 
 
 
 


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  # 2268076 1-Jul-2019 23:52
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

.........

 

Is there much being done on capturing carbon? Dont hear much on that

 

 

 

 

If you have access to BBC (unblock the geo-blocking), then "Click" had a feature on artificial trees to suck carbon out of the air in the latest episode:

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0006bxp/click-999-emergency-earth


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  # 2282891 24-Jul-2019 15:59
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This is disgusting: Trump plastic straws.

made is the USA of course


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  # 2283007 24-Jul-2019 18:40
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steve2222:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

.........

 

Is there much being done on capturing carbon? Dont hear much on that

 

 

 

 

If you have access to BBC (unblock the geo-blocking), then "Click" had a feature on artificial trees to suck carbon out of the air in the latest episode:

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0006bxp/click-999-emergency-earth

 

 

Yes I've seen that since. Awesome


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  # 2283013 24-Jul-2019 18:52
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I see they are being wildfires in the Arctic. That happens, but not like this. 

 

Hope I dont get banned, BUT, sometimes you think that communism isnt that bad as there is not politics getting the way of what needs to be done.

 

I recall Star Trek, they banned money as it was in the way.


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  # 2286727 31-Jul-2019 17:15
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"Hey, old people! You aren't doing sh¡t about climate change, just letting everything go to hell while you hold talkfests and bulldoze rainforests. If we kids want to have a future, we are going to have to fix it ourselves!"

 

I am paraphrasing, but this is pretty much what an environmental activist child (not the Swedish girl) told the General Assembly of the United Nations awhile back. His name is Felix Finkbeiner, and he is a German boy. Here is what he said to the assembled suits:

 

“If you let a monkey choose if he wants one banana now or six bananas later, the monkey will always choose the one banana now. From this, we children understood we cannot trust that adults alone will save our future. To do that, we have to take our future in our hands.”

 

I love this kid. Standing in front of all those puffed up dignitaries and telling them they are monkeys who can't see further than the first banana. What a great image. This is going into my collection of favourite all time quotes. Move over, old people. The kids are going to actually do something. After all, their lives depend on it.





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  # 2300373 16-Aug-2019 11:51
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Australian politicans are the worst...



‘She’s a joke’: Jacinda Ardern blasted
by Australian newspaper "Fraser Coast Chronicle", Sam Clench

New Zealand has found itself caught in the middle of simmering tensions between Australia and other Pacific nations after some pointed comments from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern yesterday.

Ms Ardern and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison both landed in Tuvalu for the Pacific Islands Forum, where Australia is facing pressure to take greater action on climate change.

She immediately added to that pressure, saying Australia would have to "answer to" the rest of the Pacific.

"We will continue to say that New Zealand will do its bit. And we have an expectation that everyone else will as well. We have to. Every single little bit matters," Ms Ardern said.

"That is why New Zealand has joined that international call. That is why we speak, I believe, strongly on the international stage around these issues. But ultimately we have to take responsibility for ourselves.

"Australia has to answer to the Pacific. That is a matter for them."

Ms Ardern and Mr Morrison came together for a bilateral meeting later in the day.

Her comments came after she disembarked her plane in Tuvalu's capital, Funafuti, to hear a group of local children singing: "Save Tuvalu, save the world."

The assertion that Australia would answer to other Pacific nations sparked some pushback from the Australian media.

No one was harsher than 2GB radio host Alan Jones, who labelled Ms Ardern a "complete clown" and urged Mr Morrison to "shove a sock down her throat".

"Here she is preaching on global warming and saying that we've got to do something about climate change," Jones said on his show this morning.

"The fact is New Zealand's carbon dioxide has grown by 10.8 per cent per capita since 1990. Ours has grown by 1.8 per cent.

"I just wonder whether Scott Morrison is going to be fully briefed to shove a sock down her throat.

"She is a joke, this woman, an absolute and utter lightweight.

"These people are an absolute joke and Jacinda Ardern is the biggest joke."

The Australian's environment editor Graham Lloyd was more restrained.

"Demanding Australia abandon its coal production and exports for the good of the climate in the Pacific is akin to asking New Zealand to give up its love affair with sheep," Lloyd wrote.

"Ardern is naive if she believes such moves would be economically feasible or in the best interests of regional stability."

The Daily Telegraph's Tim Blair, meanwhile, made the point a bit more facetiously.

"New Zealand's 'luttle but' of carbon dioxide output doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to the fate of Pacific islands or anything else. Does Wellington even have factories?" he wrote.

This morning Ms Ardern's deputy Winston Peters, who is also New Zealand's Foreign Minister, walked back her comments and even defended Australia during an interview on ABC radio.

"Let's make no bones about it, Australia has been a great neighbour in the Pacific. They've put a lot of effort and a lot of care and a lot of attention and a lot of sound foreign policy over decades in the Pacific. Before people rush to judgment they should remember that," Mr Peters said.

He said every nation at the Pacific forum needed to outline its response to the challenge of climate change.

"The Australians have provided their response. The rest of us have provided ours. And to my knowledge it's not been the New Zealand Prime Minister who's raised the questions about the Australian response, it's been other members at the forum. But not our Prime Minister," he said.

Australia's response has been to redirect $500 million from its foreign aid budget to help the Pacific nations mitigate the effects of climate change.

But that has not been enough to satisfy all the other leaders.

Yesterday Tuvalu Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga said the situation was "dire" for his country, whose highest point is just four metres above sea level, and the $500 million funding package would not make him "shut up" about climate change.

Mr Peters suggested criticism of Australia did not take in the full picture, and China needed to be brought into the conversation as well.

"You need to look at everybody, not just Australia, but also who is getting that coal and what things they are doing with it," New Zealand's Deputy Prime Minister said.

"What I'm sadly hearing is variations on a theme that (Pacific leaders are) all attacking the Australian Prime Minister, or that they've all taken the view, including New Zealand's Prime Minister, that the Australians are somehow acting incorrectly when that is not the proper picture or the real picture at all.

"There's a bit of a paradox here.

"There are many Pacific countries that are seeking cheap loans from China. Now those loans are on the backs of coal-fired everything in mainland China, as we well know. So you know, there's a big picture we've got to contemplate here, and we've got to ensure we act in this big picture, we act with consistency and integrity.

"You've got to look at everybody. Not just - for example, Australia's got coal and you're selling it. The next question is OK, who is getting that coal and what are they doing with it? We should keep our eyes on all the details."

Today Ms Ardern announced New Zealand would dedicate $150 million to a climate change support program in the Pacific.

She said she expected frank but constructive discussions on the subject behind closed doors.

"It is a place where we are able to talk frankly with one another, and I would expect that to occur on a range of issues," Ms Ardern said.

"But it is clear that climate change is the centrepiece of this, and I think what our Pacific Island leaders want to see is a transition. They want to see progress."

The behind-the-scenes negotiations will focus on the wording of a communique all leaders are expected to sign at the end of the forum.

Mr Morrison is expected to push back on attempts to include tougher language on climate change or the use of coal in that communique.

https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/shes-a-joke-jacinda-ardern-blasted/3806184/

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  # 2300376 16-Aug-2019 11:54
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But Austrlian broadcasters are also horrible



FaceBook Post
by Alan Jones, Australian radio shock jock

There’s a headline story today where this lightweight New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is challenging Scott Morrison over climate change.

This is this Pacific Leaders’ Forum where the cargo cult mentality is alive and well.

Talk climate change and we might be panicked into more money.

Jacinda Ardern getting a headline because she’s promised a carbon-neutral economy by 2050.

But she’s excluded agriculture and methane, that’s cows breaking wind, because they contribute half of New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions.

But I hope Scott Morrison gets tough.

He has a stack of staff.

Someone should have to him a full briefing.

The fact is since 1990 New Zealand has grown carbon dioxide per capita at 10.8 per cent.

Now I don’t have a problem with carbon dioxide.

It’s only these swallowers of the hoax that seem to be worrying.

But if they want to make it an issue, they had better live with the facts.

New Zealand CO2 has grown by 10.8 per cent; Australia 1.8 per cent since 1990.

When it comes to fossil fuel power generation, coal, oil, gas, biomass which is dirtier than Australian black coal, New Zealand gets 67.2 per cent; we get 84.8.

But when it comes to wind and solar which she’s in love with, we get 12.1 per cent, New Zealand .93 per cent.

Global emissions, we’re responsible for .0000134 per cent.

New Zealand, .00000124 per cent.

The point is, no matter what either of us does, there will be no impact.

And one other point.

According to the latest Bureau of Statistics figures there are 568,000 New Zealanders in Australia, or more than double the total three decades ago.

So more than 11 per cent of the Kiwi population lives in Australia.

Statistically we have five times New Zealand’s population but only 38,600 Aussies live in New Zealand.

We have almost 15 times that number of Kiwis living here.

Presumably they prefer Scott Morrison to Jacinda Ardern.

That would be no surprise.

https://www.facebook.com/alanjonesaustralia/photos/a.130602527532698/447599985832949/?type=3

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  # 2300378 16-Aug-2019 11:57
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Why give these carbuncles oxygen? The best response to this kind of thing is to just ignore. 

 

 





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