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  #2325140 26-Sep-2019 11:02
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Energy solutions are often spoken about in all or nothing terms. I like the suggestion above that different solutions may be appropriate in different places. Where you have a lot of sun, focus on solar. Where you have a lot of volcanic activity, look at geo-thermal. Where there are empty landscapes not suitable for solar, set up grids of microwave collectors to receive beamed energy from satellites. Where there is lush sub-tropical vegetation, use bio-fuel as Brazil already does. Where there is nothing else, go nuclear.

 

We tend to think in terms of large scale economies and worldwide mono-solutions. That seems short-sighted to me. Just because the whole world runs on fossil fuels today doesn't mean it has to look to nuclear or other one-trick ponies tomorrow. The answer will be lots of different solutions, each tweaked to local circumstances. We just have to get away from the global megaproject mindset.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2325141 26-Sep-2019 11:04
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Dingbatt: MikeB4:

 

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it"

 





You mean like 1930s Germany when falsehoods and exaggeration was used to cause mass hysteria and overthrow of government?

 

The point is we see history and we have a choice not to repeat it, thats why flying is super safe, NOW


 
 
 
 


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  #2325143 26-Sep-2019 11:09
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sidefx:

Dingbatt:


Edit: Comment withdrawn by poster


You might want to re-read the FUG...



Why? I'm not trying to invoke Godwin's Law, and I apologise if that is the reference taken. I could just as easily use Mao's cultural revolution, Stalin's purges, McCarthy's inquisitions in the US as examples of falsehoods and group think being used for other ends.

For that reason I have edited my quote above. I am happy for the mods to remove it.




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  #2325144 26-Sep-2019 11:11
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frankv:

 

Geektastic:

 

Surely you would simply put such a project out to international tender to countries with appropriate expertise?

 

 

The Chinese steel debacle. And the Hungarian trains. And the never-ending recalls of cars.

 

How can we be certain that the safeguards we expect are actually implemented? Someone who's not going to actually live next door to the reactor isn't incentivized enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Project management?

 

 

 

My wife was working at Kiwi Rail when those trains were ordered.

 

 

 

"How many engineers have they sent out to China to supervise the work for the 12 months or so of construction?" I asked her.

 

 

 

"None."

 

 

 

"Ah. The trains will not be delivered as ordered then." I said.

 

 

 

However, that aside, an international tender for a nuclear power plant is a completely different thing from a commodity order for some trains. If necessary, we employ experts from somewhere else to act for us in the tender process by creating NZNuclearPower and staffing it with the appropriate scientists and engineers sourced from overseas. Many government departments have SMTs full of experts and professionals originally from overseas already.






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  #2325145 26-Sep-2019 11:13
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Rikkitic:

 

Energy solutions are often spoken about in all or nothing terms. I like the suggestion above that different solutions may be appropriate in different places. Where you have a lot of sun, focus on solar. Where you have a lot of volcanic activity, look at geo-thermal. Where there are empty landscapes not suitable for solar, set up grids of microwave collectors to receive beamed energy from satellites. Where there is lush sub-tropical vegetation, use bio-fuel as Brazil already does. Where there is nothing else, go nuclear.

 

We tend to think in terms of large scale economies and worldwide mono-solutions. That seems short-sighted to me. Just because the whole world runs on fossil fuels today doesn't mean it has to look to nuclear or other one-trick ponies tomorrow. The answer will be lots of different solutions, each tweaked to local circumstances. We just have to get away from the global megaproject mindset.

 

 

 

 

Its about volume. Look at our Hydro, its probably 80% of our total energy. But no one lives here this is half Los Angeles size. The ONLY reason we are super cool and 80% renewables is that we use hardly any energy, as there is hardly anybody living here. Bring in a still small extra 20 million, its FF all the way, these alternatives are way too small a volume. The ideas are great the reality isn't there. We are indirectly supporting FF as we dont want to know about a solution that would resolve our FF usage. We prefer CC over nuclear, I get that. Watch  the doco, its not Hiroshima nuclear that we are talking about


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  #2325146 26-Sep-2019 11:15
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ShinyChrome:

 

I don't know if this has been posted before, or if you folks are already aware of it, but Transpower's Power System Dashboard provides an almost real-time view of our power grid generation, as well as breaking down exactly what types of generation we are using. We tend to vary between 80-90% renewable energy, depending on the system load.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. Wind is a bit pointless considering how much of a blot on the landscape it is, at least today, despite it being pretty windy here in the lower NI.






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  #2325147 26-Sep-2019 11:17
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@tdgeek May I ask where in New Zealand would you suggest that a nuclear power plant could be located?





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2325149 26-Sep-2019 11:19
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Geektastic:

 

ShinyChrome:

 

I don't know if this has been posted before, or if you folks are already aware of it, but Transpower's Power System Dashboard provides an almost real-time view of our power grid generation, as well as breaking down exactly what types of generation we are using. We tend to vary between 80-90% renewable energy, depending on the system load.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. Wind is a bit pointless considering how much of a blot on the landscape it is, at least today, despite it being pretty windy here in the lower NI.

 

 

The wind turbines can be located offshore e.g Denmark





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2325150 26-Sep-2019 11:21
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MikeB4:

@tdgeek May I ask where in New Zealand would you suggest that a nuclear power plant could be located?



Northland. On land previously required for the evilness that is the Marsden Point Oil refinery.😕




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  #2325153 26-Sep-2019 11:28
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Dingbatt:
MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek May I ask where in New Zealand would you suggest that a nuclear power plant could be located?

 



Northland. On land previously required for the evilness that is the Marsden Point Oil refinery.😕

 

Marsden Point is a shoreline location. Offshore is the Kermadec Trench capable of quakes 8+. The region is also at risk of tsunamis generated from the Kermadec Trench, the South Pacific portion of the Rim and South America. It is also at risk from the Auckland Volcanic field also the Kaikohe and Whangarei volcanic fields.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2325156 26-Sep-2019 11:34
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MikeB4:

 

It is also at risk from the Auckland Volcanic field.

 

 

Only in the same way that Auckland is at risk in the event Ruapehu pops - in that the wind has to be blowing from a very specific direction for it to be a problem.  

 

The AVF is a pretty small area and has sporadic activity. We also built an entire city on it. In terms of the risks it presents, a wind-farm up North is fairly low down the list of likely casualties should it erupt and should that eruption be of a type that causes issues to begin with. 


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  #2325159 26-Sep-2019 11:40
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

It is also at risk from the Auckland Volcanic field.

 

 

Only in the same way that Auckland is at risk in the event Ruapehu pops - in that the wind has to be blowing from a very specific direction for it to be a problem.  

 

The AVF is a pretty small area and has sporadic activity. We also built an entire city on it. In terms of the risks it presents, a wind-farm up North is fairly low down the list of likely casualties should it erupt and should that eruption be of a type that causes issues to begin with. 

 

 

Auckland was located before the true extent and potential was known. I feel today it would not be done. An eruption in Auckland field could have extensive risk potential for Northland. It is possible that secondary eruptions could occur in the various Northland Volcanic fields.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2325160 26-Sep-2019 11:40
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MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek May I ask where in New Zealand would you suggest that a nuclear power plant could be located?

 

 

Id ask Japan which is a far riskier proposition than NZ. They had 54. many are down now that are going back onstream continually

 

But we dont need nuclear here as we all realise, we will increase renewables to around 90% and retain FF, as its not worth it as per a report a few weeks or months ago here, power prices will rise, we cannot have anyone paying any money towards CC

 

My point Mike was that nuclear as per the Bill Gates doco is a world away from Chernobyl. Exponentially. It uses spent uranium, it uses waste uranium, it runs at atmospheric pressure, it doesn't need water cooling. Safety wise its 2018 vs 1940 (Chernobyl) 1960 (everywhere else). Is it 100% safe? No. neither are FF fumes, Ebola, the Amazon burning. despite the antique age of all reactors, they are everywhere and accidents are few.I think 3000 odd direct deaths (yes I know Chernobyl contamination). I believe the vast amount of those 3000 deaths were Chernobyl. 2018 vs 1940 and 1060;s tech is a huge change, yet what we have is everywhere and in active use and it just works, despite its age. I feel we have no real options to replace FF in the next century. The world, isn't 5 million NZ. There is no real option for energy to satisfy the 4 billion users. The alternatives are small, very small, niche. I favour fission now, fusion when it works, 100 years if you are lucky. In the meantime we will fry as we mess around with GREAT solutions that offer ZERO large volume. other than that, lets just all use FF as much as we want and devote technology to sequestering the carbon, but thats not in many minds it seems these days. Its like we are pacing in circles wondering what to do while the fire advances towards us


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  #2325161 26-Sep-2019 11:40
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MikeB4:

The wind turbines can be located offshore e.g Denmark



And what provides the base load on a cold mid-winter night when there is a high pressure area sitting over the country and there is no wind?
Not sure how shallow the North Sea and Baltic are around Denmark but the drop-off to the abyssal plain isn't that far off the NZ coast. Fact of life when you live/were formed on a plate boundary and not the result of sediment washed down from melting glaciers.




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  #2325165 26-Sep-2019 11:46
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tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek May I ask where in New Zealand would you suggest that a nuclear power plant could be located?

 

 

Id ask Japan which is a far riskier proposition than NZ. They had 54. many are down now that are going back onstream continually

 

But we dont need nuclear here as we all realise, we will increase renewables to around 90% and retain FF, as its not worth it as per a report a few weeks or months ago here, power prices will rise, we cannot have anyone paying any money towards CC

 

My point Mike was that nuclear as per the Bill Gates doco is a world away from Chernobyl. Exponentially. It uses spent uranium, it uses waste uranium, it runs at atmospheric pressure, it doesn't need water cooling. Safety wise its 2018 vs 1940 (Chernobyl) 1960 (everywhere else). Is it 100% safe? No. neither are FF fumes, Ebola, the Amazon burning. despite the antique age of all reactors, they are everywhere and accidents are few.I think 3000 odd direct deaths (yes I know Chernobyl contamination). I believe the vast amount of those 3000 deaths were Chernobyl. 2018 vs 1940 and 1060;s tech is a huge change, yet what we have is everywhere and in active use and it just works, despite its age. I feel we have no real options to replace FF in the next century. The world, isn't 5 million NZ. There is no real option for energy to satisfy the 4 billion users. The alternatives are small, very small, niche. I favour fission now, fusion when it works, 100 years if you are lucky. In the meantime we will fry as we mess around with GREAT solutions that offer ZERO large volume. other than that, lets just all use FF as much as we want and devote technology to sequestering the carbon, but thats not in many minds it seems these days. Its like we are pacing in circles wondering what to do while the fire advances towards us

 

 

Chernobyl started producing power circa 1978 and constructed in the early 70s





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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