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18991 posts

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  #2385702 6-Jan-2020 08:32
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noddy76:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Four entirely different charges. You could simplify that to one, but then you have a myriad of combinations for car size, cc, weight, and mileage. I agree we need an emissions fee in the future. If it was a bit silly why have the exiting charges been kept seperate? Its simpler. In any case thats all irrelevant, we either agree or disagree on a future emissions charge or we don't, and we do. How they are billed is just an admin issue

 

 

 

 

1) we already have an emissions fee...have since 2010..

 

 

 

 

Do we? So how do I pay my fee as I drive two petrol cars, and how do the EV users avoid that fee? It would have been helpful to provide info on it


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Master Geek


  #2385707 6-Jan-2020 08:43
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tdgeek:

 

noddy76:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Four entirely different charges. You could simplify that to one, but then you have a myriad of combinations for car size, cc, weight, and mileage. I agree we need an emissions fee in the future. If it was a bit silly why have the exiting charges been kept seperate? Its simpler. In any case thats all irrelevant, we either agree or disagree on a future emissions charge or we don't, and we do. How they are billed is just an admin issue

 

 

 

 

1) we already have an emissions fee...have since 2010..

 

 

 

 

Do we? So how do I pay my fee as I drive two petrol cars, and how do the EV users avoid that fee? It would have been helpful to provide info on it

 

 

Its built into the price of petrol and diesel.  You pay it at the pump.  EVusers don't buy petrol/diesel.


 
 
 
 


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  #2385722 6-Jan-2020 08:46
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noddy76:

 

tdgeek:

 

noddy76:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Four entirely different charges. You could simplify that to one, but then you have a myriad of combinations for car size, cc, weight, and mileage. I agree we need an emissions fee in the future. If it was a bit silly why have the exiting charges been kept seperate? Its simpler. In any case thats all irrelevant, we either agree or disagree on a future emissions charge or we don't, and we do. How they are billed is just an admin issue

 

 

 

 

1) we already have an emissions fee...have since 2010..

 

 

 

 

Do we? So how do I pay my fee as I drive two petrol cars, and how do the EV users avoid that fee? It would have been helpful to provide info on it

 

 

Its built into the price of petrol and diesel.  You pay it at the pump.  EVusers don't buy petrol/diesel.

 

 

Whats the name of the fee?


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  #2385727 6-Jan-2020 09:00
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Ok, so you refer to the ETS. So as per recent posts here we don't need an Emissions Tax as we already have one. How much per litre of petrol is the ETS permit fee?


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  #2385922 6-Jan-2020 10:07
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It seems very complicated to embed an emissions charge into a KM-based system which then needs to be fudged with all sorts of factors to account for efficiency.
Surely, the simplest system is in two parts:
- a km-based RUC to pay for roads, with weight-based categories to fairly allocate costs. This could also incorporate the ACC levy (meaning that if you have multiple vehicles, you only pay ACC when they’re used). You could have an electronic system with transponders for enforcement to be more effective than the current labels
- a per-litre emissions charge on all fuels. This could be set according to fuel type and accounting for the govt’s balance of climate and social priorities.

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  #2385988 6-Jan-2020 12:39
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tdgeek:

 

.. How much per litre of petrol is the ETS permit fee?

 

 

Not sure about the 'permit' part of your query but ETS fee is 7.11c if you're paying $2.37 per litre according to this

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/





"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." -  Stephen Hawking


 
 
 
 


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  #2385990 6-Jan-2020 12:48
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floydbloke:

 

tdgeek:

 

.. How much per litre of petrol is the ETS permit fee?

 

 

Not sure about the 'permit' part of your query but ETS fee is 7.11c if you're paying $2.37 per litre according to this

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/

 

 

Permit cost is that cost, but the ETS post earlier was a waste of ink. We were discussing a future emissions tax to drive people off ICE to lower emission cars. ETS is an emissions tax but not what we were talking about. Its really just to find some way of monetising emissions as some form of weak penalty and to comply with global agreements. Its not a tax to get people off  using fossil fuels

 

 

 

But thanks tho, 7.11 c is quite puny


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Master Geek


  #2386133 6-Jan-2020 14:38
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Taxing poor people into the ground doesn't make it easier for them to be able to afford a new shiny $40k car.. Adding 30c/ltr or whatever punishment you have in mind isn't going to get the 15yo Falcon and Mazda Bongo van driving masses of South Auckland into a shiny EV.


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Master Geek


  #2386134 6-Jan-2020 14:38
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. Double post


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  #2386138 6-Jan-2020 14:51
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noddy76:

 

Taxing poor people into the ground doesn't make it easier for them to be able to afford a new shiny $40k car.. Adding 30c/ltr or whatever punishment you have in mind isn't going to get the 15yo Falcon and Mazda Bongo van driving masses of South Auckland into a shiny EV.

 

 

My intention is when there are EV's everywhere and used, that is the time to push ICE off the roads. You can buy hybrids that are well priced, and in the future there will be many hybrids out there, used. Then its the time to move. No, I'm not suggesting we bring in a punishment tax now, we bring in a tax that will drive people into lower emission cars. Its actually not all about pure EV's, its about lower emission cars. When they need to trade in the 15yo Falcon for a 8yo car they will be best suited to get a used EV or a used Hybrid


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  #2386419 7-Jan-2020 08:42
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Even by Australian standards, this was a dumpster fire of an interview

A Climate Change Sceptic Denies Global Warming Caused the Australian Fires

Australian MP Craig Kelly says there is no link between the Australian bushfires and climate change. Laura Tobin debates the politician live from Sydney.




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  #2386420 7-Jan-2020 08:42
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298420

 

Foreign media rips into Australia over climate change policy: worth a read. From the above:

 

"Australia is the world's second-largest exporter of coal power, and it has avoided recession for the past 27 years in part by selling coal," Meyer said.

 

"Australia will continue to burn, and its coral will continue to die. Perhaps this episode will prompt the more pro-carbon members of Australia's parliament to accede to some climate policy. Or perhaps Prime Minister Morrison will distract from any link between the disaster and climate change, as President Donald Trump did when he inexplicably blamed California's 2018 blazes on the state's failure to rake forest floors."

 

Mr Albanese did voice his support for coal exports – to an extent – before departing on his Queensland tour last month.

 

"If Australia stopped exporting today there would not be less demand for coal – the coal would come from a different place," he said.

 

"So it would not reduce emissions, which has to be the objective. I don't see a contradiction between that and having a strong climate change policy.

 

"The proposal that we immediately stop exporting coal would damage our economy and would not have any environmental benefit."

 

Now that's an interesting comment about continuing to support the export of coal!


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  #2386425 7-Jan-2020 08:50
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Let me guess, without clicking on the link, the foreign press ripping into Australia would be;

 

The Washington Post,

 

The New York Times, and

 

The BBC.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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Ultimate Geek


  #2386443 7-Jan-2020 09:42
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Dingbatt:

 

Let me guess, without clicking on the link, the foreign press ripping into Australia would be;

 

The Washington Post,

 

The New York Times, and

 

The BBC.

 

 

Nope, noted far lefty Piers Morgan (wait, what?) on ITV, also CNN and The Atlantic.


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