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5385 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2251097 4-Jun-2019 13:05
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Repowering the boat with a more efficient power plant (40% less petrol) is the biggest change I could make. 

 

Just waiting for govt subsidies for more efficient outboards.  New outboards for middle to upper income earners is the big first-world-problem-climate-issue that no govt has the guts to tackle.





Mike

109 posts

Master Geek


  # 2251100 4-Jun-2019 13:15
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You've asked an impossible to answer question. It is flawed and any answer would be meaningless

N

 

 

 

it is not an impossible question, that is just a side step.

 

every aspect of the suns output is monitored 24/7 by a number of satellites in earth orbit + in solar orbit. therefor adding a 10% increase in output is just math

 

Are you saying that man's output of greenhouse gasses is not quantifiable


 
 
 
 


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  # 2251104 4-Jun-2019 13:18
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nzrock:

 

the point i am trying to make is that the suns ability to effect our climate is magnitudes greater than what man can do (except by nuking the planet) but you never here the sun mentioned by any climate scientist.

 

 

It is hard to take you seriously but I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt. Most scientists and other rational people believe anthropogenic climate change is real. A few dissenters and some uninformed people dispute that. Those who question climate change seem to think there is some kind of vast scientific conspiracy to convince us there is a problem when there isn't. I think that is silly but I guess people are free to believe that if they want to.

 

Yes, the sun has cycles and solar activity goes up and down and of course this influences life on the earth. Hell, the seasons do that. Crops grow in summer and die in winter. That is normal and natural. 

 

The point is, we can't do much about what the sun gets up to, except pray it doesn't go nova on us. What is the point in mentioning it? It is what it is and will do what it does. The sun is beyond our ability to influence it. Nor do we really need to. Life on earth has functioned fine with the sun as it is for billions of years.

 

Human industrial activity is another matter. The effect of that is real and measurable. We know how it has added carbon to the atmosphere and now we are starting to experience the effects of that. Research strongly suggests that this will lead to catastrophic changes if allowed to continue on the current course. 

 

Several years ago science discovered that chemicals known as CFCs were destroying atmospheric ozone and creating a hole that was allowing harmful radiation through. New Zealand was particularly affected by this. At the time there was no Internet, no trolls, no conspiracy theories. Everyone agreed that CFCs were bad and they were banned. This stands as an example of one of the most successful international agreements ever made. There was a danger, it was recognised, and steps were taken to remedy it. Since then the ozone hole has been shrinking. A great result.

 

Something like this needs to happen with carbon. Unfortunately that affects a lot more people in a lot more ways than banning CFCs did, so there is a lot more opposition to it. Some are desperate to make the issue go away by pretending it doesn't really exist. That is a lot easier than drastically changing our lifestyles and economic system.

 

What it comes down to is that we cannot affect what the sun does, but we certainly can change what we do. That is what it is about.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2251107 4-Jun-2019 13:21
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nzrock:

 

Are you saying that man's output of greenhouse gasses is not quantifiable

 

 

40 billion tons of CO2 annually.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


4223 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2251109 4-Jun-2019 13:24
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nzrock:

 

 

You've asked an impossible to answer question. It is flawed and any answer would be meaningless

N

 

 

 

it is not an impossible question, that is just a side step.

 

every aspect of the suns output is monitored 24/7 by a number of satellites in earth orbit + in solar orbit. therefor adding a 10% increase in output is just math

 

Are you saying that man's output of greenhouse gasses is not quantifiable

 

 

I'm saying you either don't understand what an interaction between two (or more) variables is, or for some reason have decided they have no place in global warming discussions.

 

N.

 

(edit: Or non-linear effects, or threshold based change, or a bunch of other things)

 

 





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


3880 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2251119 4-Jun-2019 13:46
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MikeAqua:

Repowering the boat with a more efficient power plant (40% less petrol) is the biggest change I could make. 


Just waiting for govt subsidies for more efficient outboards.  New outboards for middle to upper income earners is the big first-world-problem-climate-issue that no govt has the guts to tackle.



In a similar vein - we have put the NZ Super Winter Energy Payment towards buying a new OLED TV. It gives out only a little heat but we’re killing two birds with one stone - warmth and television. And it’s nice and bright so we can dim the lights while it’s on. Every little bit helps.




Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


109 posts

Master Geek


  # 2251135 4-Jun-2019 14:21
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Talkiet:

 

nzrock:

 

 

You've asked an impossible to answer question. It is flawed and any answer would be meaningless

N

 

 

 

it is not an impossible question, that is just a side step.

 

every aspect of the suns output is monitored 24/7 by a number of satellites in earth orbit + in solar orbit. therefor adding a 10% increase in output is just math

 

Are you saying that man's output of greenhouse gasses is not quantifiable

 

 

I'm saying you either don't understand what an interaction between two (or more) variables is, or for some reason have decided they have no place in global warming discussions.

 

N.

 

(edit: Or non-linear effects, or threshold based change, or a bunch of other things)

 

 

 

 

I do understand the interaction between to or more variables in relation to climate change. IE: in its simplest form, planting  more trees, will reduce the amount of CO2 in the air, while increasing the amount of stored carbon and increasing the amount of O2.

 

What i am saying is that you and most climate scientists, deny that the sun has place in global warming/climate change discussions.

 

and as i said before you still have not answered the question


 
 
 
 


109 posts

Master Geek


  # 2251137 4-Jun-2019 14:22
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As I said on the fist line of my first post, I believe that climate change is real.

 

I am happy to agree to disagree on what is causing it

 

I am all for the prevention of toxins entering our environment, for the cleaning up of the worlds pollution problem, the eradication of single use plastic bags etc. (and as I said before CO2 is plant food)

 

But I reserve the right to call `male cow droppings’ when anybody tells me I should not fly or should be driving an electric car, all because of the carbon miles, or increasing taxes on fossil fuels, just to pay for our supposed carbon foot print.


18307 posts

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  # 2251141 4-Jun-2019 14:30
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eracode:
MikeAqua:

 

Repowering the boat with a more efficient power plant (40% less petrol) is the biggest change I could make. 

 

 

 

Just waiting for govt subsidies for more efficient outboards.  New outboards for middle to upper income earners is the big first-world-problem-climate-issue that no govt has the guts to tackle.

 



In a similar vein - we have put the NZ Super Winter Energy Payment towards buying a new OLED TV. It gives out only a little heat but we’re killing two birds with one stone - warmth and television. And it’s nice and bright so we can dim the lights while it’s on. Every little bit helps.

 

Same with my plasma. Its a heater, but I paid extra and can watch things on it as well


270 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2251145 4-Jun-2019 14:32
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One other thing you all should do is switch to Ecosia, they plant a tree for every ~45 searches.


4223 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2251146 4-Jun-2019 14:33
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nzrock:

 

I do understand the interaction between to or more variables in relation to climate change. IE: in its simplest form, planting  more trees, will reduce the amount of CO2 in the air, while increasing the amount of stored carbon and increasing the amount of O2.

 

What i am saying is that you and most climate scientists, deny that the sun has place in global warming/climate change discussions.

 

and as i said before you still have not answered the question

 

 

I don't think you do understand. If you did, you wouldn't ask a question that requires giving an answer that is misleading and lacks context.

 

No-one is claiming that the sun doesn't provide heat to the earth - that would be facile. In fact the more I think about what you have written, the more I genuinely think maybe you don't understand what I mean by interactions.

 

Also, I'm not a climate scientist, you're not a climate scientist. I imagine no-one on here is a climate scientist.

 

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


18307 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2251148 4-Jun-2019 14:36
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nzrock:

 

 

 

What i am saying is that you and most climate scientists, deny that the sun has place in global warming/climate change discussions.

 

 

 

 

I have never seen that denied. But I have also never seen it suggested.

 

There are many things that can and do cause temperature change, climate change. But I have not read the paper that says the Sun, at the same time that we started mass chimneys in the Industrial Revolution, also changed. The buildup of CO2 was strong. I believe it doubled since 1980. Did the Sun ramp up then ?


8793 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2251149 4-Jun-2019 14:36
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nzrock:

 

the point i am trying to make is that the suns ability to effect our climate is magnitudes greater than what man can do (except by nuking the planet) but you never here the sun mentioned by any climate scientist.

 

 

That's not true!


Lock him up!
10792 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2251163 4-Jun-2019 14:39
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nzrock:

 

As I said on the fist line of my first post, I believe that climate change is real.

 

I am happy to agree to disagree on what is causing it

 

I am all for the prevention of toxins entering our environment, for the cleaning up of the worlds pollution problem, the eradication of single use plastic bags etc. (and as I said before CO2 is plant food)

 

But I reserve the right to call `male cow droppings’ when anybody tells me I should not fly or should be driving an electric car, all because of the carbon miles, or increasing taxes on fossil fuels, just to pay for our supposed carbon foot print.

 

 

This is a thread about what we can do to halt global warming. If you don't agree with the premise, why post here at all? You are free to start a thread called 'Global warming is BS' if you want to. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


8793 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2251240 4-Jun-2019 14:44
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nzrock:

 

the point i am trying to make is that the suns ability to effect our climate is magnitudes greater than what man can do (except by nuking the planet) but you never here the sun mentioned by any climate scientist.

 

 

That's not true!

 

 

 

tdgeek:

 

I have never seen that denied. But I have also never seen it suggested.

 

 

Sure it's been suggested.  One of the favourites of Climate Change Deniers is to bring up the Maunder Minimum.  Problem there is that there's no evidence or very poor evidence that the effect was global, and it wasn't long term like the present unprecedented warming trend (thus is was a short-term and probably localised "weather" event as opposed to the climate change going on now).

 

The variability between and within solar cycles has been discussed much.  The difference in energy from the sun is far too small to explain any difference.  The thermosphere is currently cooling, but the troposphere isn't.


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