Climate change: What can you do to help halt global warming and when will you do it?

Forums › Off topic › Climate change: What can you do to help halt global warming and when will you do it?

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#2251784 5-Jun-2019 09:34

@Rikkitic
You debase your argument by belittling those who do not think as you do.
The reasoning is fine, the sarcastic put downs are not.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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Talkiet

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#2251787 5-Jun-2019 09:40

If you're talking to me then I agree in principle, and disagree in practice. Sometimes you only need to glance at a situation to realise that it's flawed and the proponent won't engage logically and critically evaluate any evidence you put forward.

I am so comfortable that the overwhelming majority of actual scientists are correct here that it meets my personal threshold for dismissive comments rather than spending the time properly engaging with conspiracy theorists.

It's similar to anti-vaxxers, regardless of the argument, evidence or the fact that their own 'evidence' has all been thoroughly discredited - they won't change their view. There is literally no point in engaging logically.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Dingbatt

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#2251804 5-Jun-2019 09:57

Talkiet:
If you're talking to me then I agree in principle, and disagree in practice. Sometimes you only need to glance at a situation to realise that it's flawed and the proponent won't engage logically and critically evaluate any evidence you put forward.

I am so comfortable that the overwhelming majority of actual scientists are correct here that it meets my personal threshold for dismissive comments rather than spending the time properly engaging with conspiracy theorists.

It's similar to anti-vaxxers, regardless of the argument, evidence or the fact that their own 'evidence' has all been thoroughly discredited - they won't change their view. There is literally no point in engaging logically.

Cheers - N

No. Not addressing you. You snuck your post in while I was composing. So stand down.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

frankv

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#2251809 5-Jun-2019 10:04

Aredwood:

... everyone having to suffer a big drop in living standards.

That's not necessary at all. Our living standards are governed more by the way wealth is distributed in society, and accumulated by a few, than by the amount of energy we consume. What's more, energy is used disproportionately by the wealthy. A large (or even moderate) drop in living standards by a few will have a significant impact on energy use.

Labour/ Greens are not willing to admit that they were wrong.

This is a good thing when they're not wrong.

Rikkitic

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#2251864 5-Jun-2019 10:17

Dingbatt: @Rikkitic
You debase your argument by belittling those who do not think as you do.
The reasoning is fine, the sarcastic put downs are not.

Sorry, caught by surprise here. What were you referring to specifically, if I may ask?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

oldbusdriver

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#2251881 5-Jun-2019 10:35

Well, that struck a nerve, did it not?

Next time you are have lunch with your good friend Ex-pres Al Gore, you could ask him about his predictions in his famous film, which of course made him even more millions. You could also ask him for a good method of controlling the Sun, the provider of all energy used by Earth.

This recent article may help with that discussion:

https://www.thegwpf.com/suns-mysterious-11-year-cycle-appears-to-be-driven-by-alignment-of-the-planets/?fbclid=IwAR2apaq_y9Giuw0WCMyp7Jmh3LMlwupvJHMx8UEDhIpfVQ6cdjFKSBgIX7U

Have a nice (cold) day.

shk292

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#2251886 5-Jun-2019 10:46

frankv:

That's not necessary at all. Our living standards are governed more by the way wealth is distributed in society, and accumulated by a few, than by the amount of energy we consume. What's more, energy is used disproportionately by the wealthy. A large (or even moderate) drop in living standards by a few will have a significant impact on energy use.

Without going into the whole socialism/redistribution of wealth/watermelon thing, which is not going to help this discussion, I would be genuinely interested if you have any facts or figures to show that in NZ, your last sentence is true. It doesn't "feel" true to me; we have our share of rich people and they consume a lot, granted, but I just can't see the numbers stacking up.

tdgeek

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#2251888 5-Jun-2019 10:50

oldbusdriver:

Well, that struck a nerve, did it not?

Next time you are have lunch with your good friend Ex-pres Al Gore, you could ask him about his predictions in his famous film, which of course made him even more millions. You could also ask him for a good method of controlling the Sun, the provider of all energy used by Earth.

This recent article may help with that discussion:

https://www.thegwpf.com/suns-mysterious-11-year-cycle-appears-to-be-driven-by-alignment-of-the-planets/?fbclid=IwAR2apaq_y9Giuw0WCMyp7Jmh3LMlwupvJHMx8UEDhIpfVQ6cdjFKSBgIX7U

Have a nice (cold) day.

I don't believe that anyones nerves have been struck here. If you have a view that differs from others, no problem at all. In this example, your evidence is based on charlatan views, not alternate views. As in zero credibility. When posts to you are made. and ignored, it just adds to that

Talkiet

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#2251891 5-Jun-2019 10:53

oldbusdriver:

Well, that struck a nerve, did it not?

Next time you are have lunch with your good friend Ex-pres Al Gore, you could ask him about his predictions in his famous film, which of course made him even more millions. You could also ask him for a good method of controlling the Sun, the provider of all energy used by Earth.

This recent article may help with that discussion:

https://www.thegwpf.com/suns-mysterious-11-year-cycle-appears-to-be-driven-by-alignment-of-the-planets/?fbclid=IwAR2apaq_y9Giuw0WCMyp7Jmh3LMlwupvJHMx8UEDhIpfVQ6cdjFKSBgIX7U

Have a nice (cold) day.

LOL, those charlatans literally had to establish a second organisation that was not bound by laws around having to be impartial and accurate in the stuff they report and promote.

They created the Foundation because that allowed them to make unfounded and inaccurate claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation

A mod should close this. The trolls are out in force now.

For clarity, I referring to the climate change deniers as trolls.

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Mistenfuru

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#2251892 5-Jun-2019 10:54

Geektastic: You'd need an ego the size of a planet to think that.

Wanting to preserve something is not egotistical, it's a survival instinct.

Not wanting to preserve the human race is taking the flight option rather than the fight option

I for one would like my Son (5) to grow up in a world where he doesn't have to worry about the health affects of climate change and pollution

Linux

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#2251893 5-Jun-2019 10:55

Out in the company Ford XR6 today wonder how green this vehicle is considered lol

Dingbatt

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#2251904 5-Jun-2019 11:13

Rikkitic:
Dingbatt: @Rikkitic
You debase your argument by belittling those who do not think as you do.
The reasoning is fine, the sarcastic put downs are not.

Sorry, caught by surprise here. What were you referring to specifically, if I may ask?

Yeah. Sorry disregard.
Having a bad morning and the same bunch of people with the same arguments within the echo chamber, repeated in numerous threads on GZ, just got to me.
Your comments about Monkton didn’t need the embellishments to make your point.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Rikkitic

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#2251995 5-Jun-2019 11:44

Okay, sorry if I offended. Sarcasm is part of my writing style, but only directed at those I do not respect. Monckton falls into that category for me because he seems to be pushing an agenda with no regard for fact or accuracy. Conspiracy nuts do real damage and, like you, I get a little impatient with them.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

frankv

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#2252029 5-Jun-2019 12:33

shk292:

frankv:

That's not necessary at all. Our living standards are governed more by the way wealth is distributed in society, and accumulated by a few, than by the amount of energy we consume. What's more, energy is used disproportionately by the wealthy. A large (or even moderate) drop in living standards by a few will have a significant impact on energy use.

Without going into the whole socialism/redistribution of wealth/watermelon thing, which is not going to help this discussion, I would be genuinely interested if you have any facts or figures to show that in NZ, your last sentence is true. It doesn't "feel" true to me; we have our share of rich people and they consume a lot, granted, but I just can't see the numbers stacking up.

I wasn't particularly thinking of NZ, and I don't have any figures to back it up for NZ, but I think it's fairly well established that wealthy Westernised countries use more energy per capita than poor countries. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

And intuitively it feels right to me for within NZ. We live in an energy economy; the cost of *everything* is dependent to a large extent on the energy involved in producing it. If a person owns more or consumes more goods, then they're using more energy. A poor person simply doesn't go on overseas trips, for example. Or even travel much around NZ. And we do have extremely wealthy individuals who fly around the country and internationally in their own bizjets, at a vastly greater energy cost per person. A wealthy person accumulates possessions of various kinds, all of which take energy to manufacture and distribute. A wealthy person has a better diet, a larger house which costs more energy to heat and cool, a newer car (or cars), etc.

So I'm interested now in why it doesn't feel true to you.

DarthKermit

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#2252034 5-Jun-2019 12:42

Spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) is a tactic often used by weaselly lawyers and lobby groups.

All ya gotta do is say: "are you totally certain that this chemical is responsible? What if ____ could have contributed?"

Weaselly lawyers and lobby groups use it all the time to get their rich prick clients off the hook.

If you don't want to do anything to change your lifestyle, then just say so.

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