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2986 posts

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  # 2308287 30-Aug-2019 10:08
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sen8or:

 

The poverty cycle entails (or is at least significantly affected by) parents having more kids than what they can afford, its a fairly straight forward argument.

 

 

You have missed the point entirely. It is NOT the kid's fault that their parents made/make bad decisions. Whether there are too many kids in the household or not, the kids still deserve to be fed. And, if they're fed properly, then they can learn (and not be ill), and consequently not become poor (both financially and ethically) parents. *That* is how the poverty cycle is broken.

 

 


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  # 2308291 30-Aug-2019 10:17
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sen8or:

 

I have significant doubts that a Govt entity (and not just because its a Labour govt, the same applies to National Govts too) is as economic user of resources as private enterprise (which can ofcourse include charitable organisations). Most Govts couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery without going through multiple consultation stages, paying hundred of thousands / millions of dollars to "focus groups", employing (and subsequently sacking with large golden handshakes) a handful of leaders of the project before finally shelving it and moving on to something else.

 

 

Whilst I tend to agree, there are Govt departments that are run well. And the infinite consultation is a response to the inevitable scrutiny of spending and the consequent requirement to justify every decision.

 

 

There are multiple charities at the moment providing lunches to certain schools.

 

 

If there are kids that need food, it is not the responsibility of churches or volunteers to provide it. Expecting someone with actual ethics to do it is an abdication of the Government's responsibility for the well-being of young citizens of this country.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2308335 30-Aug-2019 11:16
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Completely happy for my tax dollars to go towards this.  Yes, before you ask, I have kids, but still will be when they are out of school.  I've always been completely 100% happy for a large chunk of my tax dollars to go towards education (and related things like this)


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2308429 30-Aug-2019 12:42
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You would think the most cost effective (esp. in the cities) would be to have one or two large scale kitchens, a set of standard meal menus,cook the meals and then send the meals out, for reheating at the school airplane style.

 

Does anyone know the cost per meal for airplane food?

 

 

 

I used to teach in Korea and the meals in schools were great rice, a soup, kimchi, a protein (fish, squid, meat or tofu) and a fruit.

 

 

 


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  # 2308455 30-Aug-2019 13:35
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As someone who grew up in the UK where every state school had a canteen/dining hall that could provide a hot meal at lunch time to every kid that wanted one I still find it odd that that isn't the case here.

 

Most families paid while those on benefits got "free school dinners". With costs kept low by the economies of scale from a 50-60% take up rate.

 

Sure, there'd be jokes about the school dinners and the lumpy custard. But it was cheap hot meal that kept the kids fed.


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  # 2308478 30-Aug-2019 14:06
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In theory it's hard to argue with something that is free. Especially a 'free lunch'.

 

What I fear here is the state taking care of things that 'Parents' should ultimately be responsible for.

 

I get the feeling there are a lot of slack parents who are not sending their kids to school with lunch. And while a free lunch means the child doesn't go hungry (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong). It means people attitude change, and it's not necessarily for the better. They seem to relax themselves and not feed the kids because they know the state will pick up the slack.

 

On the other hand my ex wife sends my kids to school with garbage for lunch. Packets of crackers chips musli bars. No fruit, or cooked meals that will keep them full, with proper protein. It's all refined garbage. And I feel like bad guy giving them yoghurt, fruit, wholemeal food, and maybe one treat. I guess this does give the state some control over what the kids get fed....

 

However I think it's another excuse not to parent them yourselves.

To be honest if i could say to her, just don't bother with lunch anymore. Ill send lunch on my days, and they can eat the school's food on the other days that would be great... she would get pretty upset though. 

 

 

 

FYI i do think this is solution is 'Nanny state'. People need to up their game and stop being slack. I understand some people struggle... I see kids at my kids school that are not as 'well off' as mine are, and depriving a child of a chance to better themselves is something that shouldn't ever happen IMHO. 

I am a huge believer of how nutrition plays a positive role in the development of children. 


 

 

 

 


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  # 2308589 30-Aug-2019 17:56
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darylblake:

 

FYI i do think this is solution is 'Nanny state'. People need to up their game and stop being slack. I understand some people struggle... I see kids at my kids school that are not as 'well off' as mine are, and depriving a child of a chance to better themselves is something that shouldn't ever happen IMHO. 

I am a huge believer of how nutrition plays a positive role in the development of children. 

 

 

Think of the last country you would consider a nanny state? 

 

(yes, even America provides free school lunches).

 

I too am a huge believer that nutrition plays a positive role in the development of children.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2308590 30-Aug-2019 18:01
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I think that school meals are a great idea. We used to have them at my school, although we paid for them on an annual basis. Although some of the meals were;t great, and they were provided by a professional catering company. On occasions we had pies and raspberry buns, which isn't they type of foo that is PC these days. When you aren't hungry, it allows you to concentrate on study and you have more energy to do work. I think what will happen, due to our  food safety laws, this work will end up going to professional caterers, so I hope it is going to be good healthy food.

 

 

 

However...

 

If someone buys a pet, and doesn't feed that pet, they would be accused of not looking after that pet, and potentially the pet could be removed from the owner, and the owner fined.

 

If parents are struggling financially to provide lunches to children, then  this shows a problem in our society and we aren't  earning enough either. So it is like another subsidy, and it is 'nanny state' due to the reasoning it is being brought in. However the government now calls 'nanny state' as 'proactive governance eg. They are doing things to look after our best interests. That is a good thing I guess in this case, but is not somethign that people necessarily voted on as a policy.  

 

As super markets have $1 loaves of bread (muiltigrain), then surely everyone can afford to have sandwiches for lunch. At primary school, all I got was marmite sandwidths and a piece of fruit. I hated marmite sandwiches, but it was still food. But these days kids lunch boxes seem to be full of all sorts of things that I would have loved to have had when I was at school. So I think it is all a good thing, but I hope they do it well which good old fashioned healthy food, and not burgers, pies and chips etc .  


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  # 2308592 30-Aug-2019 18:04
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dafman:

 

 

 

Think of the last country you would consider a nanny state? 

 

(yes, even America provides free school lunches).

 

I too am a huge believer that nutrition plays a positive role in the development of children.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that only to low income families? there is a lot of poverty in the US, and a big divide between rich and poor, so not sure the US is a country NZ wants to measure itself up against. Especially when it comes to healthcare. 


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  # 2308601 30-Aug-2019 18:52
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To everyone who's concerns basically boil down to "Why should I have to pay to take care of the kids when the parents won't" or some variation of, it's for the same reason we have DHBs and nationally pay for health care. We want better people raised in our country, not bitter people.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why everyone is so against giving kids better things than we had growing up - I may be a grumpy prick, but at least I won't be a nasty old sod.





Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2308619 30-Aug-2019 19:37
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Brilliant idea. I’m am more than happy for taxes to go towards helping our nations kids. I’d go even further and would happily wear a 1% tax hike if it was targeted towards feeding and clothing our countries children.
Just because mum and dad made dumb decisions doesn’t mean the kids should face the consequences of it.

344 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2308631 30-Aug-2019 20:43
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Seeing the fruit in schools programme morph into a vehicle for high sugar/salt/fat muesli bars, flavoured milks and other packaged snacks like individual serve canned fruit, then seeing kids bypass the fresh fruit makes me worry about hijacking by food companies. It might be a slippery slope fallacy, but I would like to see some oversight and a focus on whole foods and recipes made from them to set kids up to make good choices when the time comes for them to do so.


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  # 2308654 30-Aug-2019 21:59
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I KNEW this thread would be full of mean spirited baseless reckons - but I came anyway.

 

I get so TIRED of this crap here and on the net generally - but I will talk to my own lived experience as a kid raised by an awesome solo mum, who sacrificed, scrimped, budgeted and saved all that she could - but despite this she often went hungry so her 2 kids could eat - and have basic utilities - and school uniforms - and books - and study - and as a result become contributing members of society, one as a civil engineer, the other a solicitor and barrister. But this of course just my exp and I know it doesn't represent all lived experiences. 

 

What I WILL do is provide links to actual studies from organisations who do provide school lunches or have studied the impacts of them - and the PROVEN benefits of programmes like this to the kids and society as a whole.

 

So just ZIP it with your mean spirited shi&e - KIDS ARE HUNGRY - and IDGAF if the parents are the reason why - KIDS ARE HUNGRY - we have the power to help them (which will benefit ALL of us) and it's morally the right thing to do.

 

 

 

Some links from a 30 second search - literally the first five that came up:

 

https://www.frac.org/programs/national-school-lunch-program/benefits-school-lunch

 

https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-lunch-week/index.html

 

https://publicpolicy.wharton.upenn.edu/live/news/2049-the-economic-benefits-of-school-meal-programs/for-students/blog/news.php

 

https://talkpoverty.org/2018/02/08/new-study-shows-free-school-lunches-boost-earnings/

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/05/03/how-the-quality-of-school-lunch-affects-students-academic-performance/

 

 

 

PS: As "geeks" - SURELY we can research and find facts and data - as opposed to BS hot reckons?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2308658 30-Aug-2019 22:16
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Too right Driller - well said. Just as a tag-on, I myself came from a single parent beneficiary house hold, and would like to think that I've done well just in getting a trade and escaping the expected outcome of being a dole bludger. While luckily I wasn't aware while I grew up of how poor we were (thanks mum), there certainly would've been hairy moments I wasn't aware of, and I'm sure if there was knowledge that I was guaranteed lunch at school that would've helped out immensely.
Hell, even if you're not financially poor, there's still cases of kids taking $5-$10 to school to buy a pie and a Coke from the dairy. I'd love to see that become more unusual than it is at the moment.




Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


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  # 2308731 31-Aug-2019 10:09
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mattwnz:

 

IIf parents are struggling financially to provide lunches to children, then  this shows a problem in our society and we aren't  earning enough either. So it is like another subsidy, and it is 'nanny state' due to the reasoning it is being brought in.

 

 

I'd agree its a problem with our society. But the real problem is that people can be working fulltime and not get enough to survive. A redistribution of income towards the majority is the answer.

 

 


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