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3059 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2349015 6-Nov-2019 14:33
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

if the seller refuses to comply, or is exempt (under $NZ60k in sales to NZ), you won't have to pay unless the import exceeds $NZ1000.

 

 

So, is AliExpress one seller with millions of dollars of sales to NZ, or a million sellers, each with a few dollars?

 

 


245 posts

Master Geek


  # 2349016 6-Nov-2019 14:34
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Exactly my thoughts is well the email from youshop clearly states that ALL items that ship to them will attract GST and be collected by them.




tenkan

 
 
 
 


89 posts

Master Geek


  # 2349017 6-Nov-2019 14:35
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"Youshop will charge you the GST, because as far as the retailer that has sent your stuff to them is concerned, you are not in NZ. Youshop will collect the GST from you. Any forwarder should."

 

I'm not sure that that is true.

 

You will pay them GST for the service they provide to you (receiving, storing and onshipping your packages), but they have no role in the charging of GST on the original purchase of your goods.

 

Whether the overseas vendor has charged you GST or not is irrelevant to them - except for the paperwork they need to provide to customs which according to this is simply a GST Paid yes/no on a form.

 

Based on that paperwork it would be Customs to decide whether you need to pay anything, be that GST/Duty/MPI fees etc.

 

I cannot fathom that there's any scenario whereby if, for example you weren't charged GST on a <NZ$1000 purchase :-

 

  • there's any way that YouShop can charge you GST on behalf... that would be odd - they aren't a tax agent
  • And on the page linked above, Customs states "ICRs and SIDs will be written off as GST paid (collected by the supplier) or not required (supplier not registered for GST)" - so Customs won't impose GST on you either.

It might change later, if the Government thinks people are getting away with too much GST free stuff, or the NZ Retail lobby gets it's act together, but as written that's the way it'll work I reckon.


1086 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2349018 6-Nov-2019 14:42
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frankv:

 

SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

if the seller refuses to comply, or is exempt (under $NZ60k in sales to NZ), you won't have to pay unless the import exceeds $NZ1000.

 

 

So, is AliExpress one seller with millions of dollars of sales to NZ, or a million sellers, each with a few dollars?

 

 

The definition is broad enough to include marketplaces like AliExpress, eBay and Amazon. For GST purposes, these are treated as one large seller.


Banana?
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Uber Geek

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  # 2349020 6-Nov-2019 14:52
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grimwulf:

 

"Youshop will charge you the GST, because as far as the retailer that has sent your stuff to them is concerned, you are not in NZ. Youshop will collect the GST from you. Any forwarder should."

 

I'm not sure that that is true.

 

You will pay them GST for the service they provide to you (receiving, storing and onshipping your packages), but they have no role in the charging of GST on the original purchase of your goods.

 

Whether the overseas vendor has charged you GST or not is irrelevant to them - except for the paperwork they need to provide to customs which according to this is simply a GST Paid yes/no on a form.

 

Based on that paperwork it would be Customs to decide whether you need to pay anything, be that GST/Duty/MPI fees etc.

 

I cannot fathom that there's any scenario whereby if, for example you weren't charged GST on a <NZ$1000 purchase :-

 

  • there's any way that YouShop can charge you GST on behalf... that would be odd - they aren't a tax agent
  • And on the page linked above, Customs states "ICRs and SIDs will be written off as GST paid (collected by the supplier) or not required (supplier not registered for GST)" - so Customs won't impose GST on you either.

It might change later, if the Government thinks people are getting away with too much GST free stuff, or the NZ Retail lobby gets it's act together, but as written that's the way it'll work I reckon.

 

 

But it is true.

 

 

 

From the governments own website

 

The current process for collecting GST and tariff duty at the border on parcels or consignments valued over NZ$1,000 will continue to apply. Customs will not collect GST on parcels or consignments (or low-value goods within a parcel or consignment) valued over NZ$1,000 if they receive evidence that the overseas supplier, marketplace or re-deliverer has already collected GST.

 

The important bit I got from above is 'if they receive evidence that the overseas supplier, marketplace or re-deliverer has already collected GST'.

 

This means customs are expecting lower value items (<$1000) to already have had the GST collected on them. Youshop will collect the GST. They say it in their email as well. Everything sent to Youshop, by definition, will not have had GST added to it by the seller (they are selling it to a US/UK/Aus address).

 

From 1 December 2019, all items purchased from overseas and shipped to your YouShop address will have 15% Goods & Services Tax (GST) applied. GST will be charged on the total value of the goods and YouShop services purchased.

 

 


868 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2349025 6-Nov-2019 15:13
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If its only the 15% GST they are collecting even on low value goods, I think thats good. I recently purchased a radar detector, $420 NZ shipped via youshop. Under existing regime, I am paying around $180 in customs clearance, MPI and GST to get it released. Even at $600, its still $300 or so cheaper than retail / trademe so I'm not unhappy, but if all I have to pay from Dec onwards is the GST, it would mean total imported cost would have been about $500, a bigger gap between import and local for the exact same thing.

 

I wonder if Amazon will adjust their calculators for import taxes and fees from 1/12 to eliminate the MPI / customs clearance portion of the fees?

 

Have customs said what will happen to low value goods without evidence that GST has been collected?

 

 


800 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2349031 6-Nov-2019 15:30
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Yes - low value good just pass through with no GST if not charged at the supplier stage (or freight forwarder I assume):

 

Do all overseas suppliers have to charge New Zealand GST?

 

No. Overseas businesses who do not meet our NZ$60,000 registration threshold are not required to register for GST in New Zealand. This means you may not pay GST on all items you import.

 

Could goods be held up at the border because of this change?

 

No. New Zealand consumers will pay any required GST on goods that cost NZ$1,000 or less when they buy them. This means there is no need to hold these parcels at the border until GST is collected. However, all existing border security and biosecurity checks and rules still apply.

 

The current process for collecting GST and tariff duty at the border on parcels or consignments valued over NZ$1,000 will continue to apply. Customs will not collect GST on parcels or consignments (or low-value goods within a parcel or consignment) valued over NZ$1,000 if they receive evidence that the overseas supplier, marketplace or re-deliverer has already collected GST.

 

 

 

https://www.classic.ird.govt.nz/campaigns/2018/gst-policy-update-nz-consumers.html#kiwi


 
 
 
 


2862 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2349044 6-Nov-2019 16:42
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Is the $1000 threshold before GST is added?

 

If I buy a NZ$990 item from an overseas retailer who correctly collects GST then my total purchase price is $1138.50. Do I get hit with customs and MPI fees or not?


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  # 2349051 6-Nov-2019 17:41
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trig42:

 

old3eyes:

 

Behodar:

 

If the overseas business sells less than $60k/year to NZ, then it doesn't need to do anything. If the items are less than $1000 then no GST will be collected.

 

 

I got the impression from the email that anything going thru YouShop will be charged GST. 

 

 

Yes, you will be. As you *should* be for anything else you buy from a retailer that does over $60,000 worth of business to NZ customers a year. Amazon will be. AliX? Not sure, but probably.

 

 

My concern is that if I buy something from a retailer say from the UK or a state in the US that won't ship to NZ  but will to YouShop and they charge me sales tax ,  YouShop then charges another 15% GST  for the item again.  Can I get the additional GST back or will it be tough double dipping??





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Old3eyes


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Uber Geek

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  # 2349067 6-Nov-2019 18:12
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old3eyes:

 

My concern is that if I buy something from a retailer say from the UK or a state in the US that won't ship to NZ  but will to YouShop and they charge me sales tax ,  YouShop then charges another 15% GST  for the item again.  Can I get the additional GST back or will it be tough double dipping??

 

 

Not really. If they want to sell to a freight fowarder without charging local sales tax there are all sorts of hoops to jump thru. I recall that if we were to do it for pacific islands customers we would have needed to mess about with a bill of ladding and customs stuff etc to satisfy that it was GST exempt. If the retailer isnt going to put the effort into a fedex label, chances of all the other stuff is pretty slim.





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2349068 6-Nov-2019 18:13
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Does anyone know if aliexpress will be doing this? The cost of having things on my credit card for a couple of months is much smaller than 15% so if they will I will probably bring foward a whole lot of orders to next week to avoid it.





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2349087 6-Nov-2019 20:07
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grimwulf:

 

Realise this is reigniting an older thread, but wanted to clarify my understanding - and I'm referring to the NZ Customs site here :- https://www.customs.govt.nz/about-us/news/important-notices/new-gst-rules-for-low-value-imported-goods/

 

From December 1st, goods purchased overseas that are valued below $1000 incur only GST, and no additional fees on import. (Note this is the customs value of the goods - shipping costs and insurance and other fees don't apply to this value).

 

If the overseas retailer cannot, will not or simply does not charge you GST on said items, then you don't pay any - i.e. when it arrives at Customs that is simply written off. 

 

Also doesn't matter whether there's a single item or multiple items in the package - if the combined value > $1000 NZ - then it's GST + Fees, if its < $1000 NZ then it's just GST. Same rules seem to apply on gaming this system - get caught out and you'll be stung.

 

So :-

 

  • The threshold raises from (NZ$400/US$255) to (NZ$1000/US$638) ish (obviously fluctuates with exchange rate).
  • Below the threshold now pay GST - only if the overseas retailer collects it.
  • Breaching the threshold still applies GST + bunch of customs fees.

Overall whilst more GST is collected, it's actually much simpler and cheaper to buy sub <NZ$1000 worth of items from overseas from Dec 1.

 

I imagine this is a real lesson for NZ retailers on the laws of unintended consequences - it'll be far more attractive for consumers to import from overseas with the new regime - even if the overseas vendor collects GST.

 

If the overseas vendor doesn't collect GST, then it's a no brainer.

 

Did I get any of that wrong? I can't imagine this was what NZ retailers actually wanted?

 

 

this sounds like good news





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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Uber Geek

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  # 2349093 6-Nov-2019 21:03
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old3eyes:

 

trig42:

 

old3eyes:

 

Behodar:

 

If the overseas business sells less than $60k/year to NZ, then it doesn't need to do anything. If the items are less than $1000 then no GST will be collected.

 

 

I got the impression from the email that anything going thru YouShop will be charged GST. 

 

 

Yes, you will be. As you *should* be for anything else you buy from a retailer that does over $60,000 worth of business to NZ customers a year. Amazon will be. AliX? Not sure, but probably.

 

 

My concern is that if I buy something from a retailer say from the UK or a state in the US that won't ship to NZ  but will to YouShop and they charge me sales tax ,  YouShop then charges another 15% GST  for the item again.  Can I get the additional GST back or will it be tough double dipping??

 

 

I don't see how any retailer there would charge you GST - the destination of the products is not NZ.. And if they don't ship to NZ they're highly unlikely to even have made changes to their back end systems or registered for GST.

 

 


1890 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2349126 6-Nov-2019 21:58
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Youshop will charge GST.

 

 

 

Article here Has under $400 in title, but has been updated and first paragraph has regardless of value.

 

 

 

I’m not 100% sure but think that in US Youshop operates in a state where no US sales tax has to be paid, and the tax paid is based on destination not place of purchase, so will only end up paying NZ GST at Youshop.

 

 

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8355414/Get-the-best-from-online-shopping

 

 

 

Edit; Bit of reading in above link so to quote relevant paragraph.

 

"The real kicker with YouShop and Prezoom is that their warehouses are strategically situated in the few US states which don't charge sales tax - which means you pay roughly 10 per cent less than many American consumers."

 

 

 

UK purchases maybe a bit tricker and be double taxed, their one and our one.


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Uber Geek

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  # 2349131 6-Nov-2019 22:05
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old3eyes:

 

trig42:

 

old3eyes:

 

Behodar:

 

If the overseas business sells less than $60k/year to NZ, then it doesn't need to do anything. If the items are less than $1000 then no GST will be collected.

 

 

I got the impression from the email that anything going thru YouShop will be charged GST. 

 

 

Yes, you will be. As you *should* be for anything else you buy from a retailer that does over $60,000 worth of business to NZ customers a year. Amazon will be. AliX? Not sure, but probably.

 

 

My concern is that if I buy something from a retailer say from the UK or a state in the US that won't ship to NZ  but will to YouShop and they charge me sales tax ,  YouShop then charges another 15% GST  for the item again.  Can I get the additional GST back or will it be tough double dipping??

 

 

 

 

Theoretically, this would depend to some extent whether there is a UK version of YS.

 

If they send it to the US version, then they should deduct UK VAT at 20% when they charge you, then ship it to the USA free of any other taxes.

 

 

 

Personally I still think this will only be implemented by large retailers overseas. Everyone else will just look at it and go "Yeah, nah - get over it. I am not faffing about with foreign tax collection."

 

 

 

It seems unenforceable in any way - the NZ government has no jurisdiction to require overseas traders to comply if they choose to ignore it. If you are ordering from small specialist suppliers then I would think that your costs just went down quite a lot for anything below the $1000 level.






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