Gamechangers - Meat Doco

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# 2355587 18-Nov-2019 11:09

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tdgeek:

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

Geektastic: Meat doesn't need to "do" anything. It tastes good and surely that's all that is required?

Tastes good to you. What makes you think your taste should arbitrate what others experience?

It wasn't me that started a thread suggesting we should all start eating like cows rather than eating cows. I am in fact rebutting the suggested arbitration of what I eat.

Dont make things up. This is what grates me about the internet, its less about the issue and more about winning the argument. I didn't "start this thread suggesting we should all eat like cows" I mentioned a doco that says a plant based diet is best, and what are anyones comments.

If you prefer to eat meat that's your comment. If that's only due to taste that's your choice

That is semantics really. The documentary is about eating plants and the thread is started about the documentary so in a broad sense, the thread can be generally said to be about that. Agreed, you personally are not saying that.

tdgeek

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# 2355591 18-Nov-2019 11:15

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Geektastic:

That is semantics really. The documentary is about eating plants and the thread is started about the documentary so in a broad sense, the thread can be generally said to be about that. Agreed, you personally are not saying that.

The doco is actually about the benefits of a plant based diet, and the negatives of a meat based diet (which is a plant based diet, once removed)

Not about taste, religious preference or personal preference

My personal preference is meat, but the pros and cons of meat vs vege is worth a doco and research

herbthedragon

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# 2357215 19-Nov-2019 12:30

tdgeek:

Thats the issue. Bias. A doco based on plant based diet is seen as fake. If the docs was "Meat is the best for you" that will also be fake. Why is that? Its what we do these days, every claim is bagged online. I saw a few sites, beef sites bagging the doco. Expected. But these are true are they not? Its identical to the moon landing, always a conspiracy. I saw a few sites that pretty much saw red meat as the saviour, and those stupid vegan idiots. Prior to this doco I was reading up on similar stuff.Not vegan, vegetarian or meat, related health stuff. Then I saw the doco, so to me, it seemed to male a lot of sense based on the general health site stuff I had read. But no, it's fake.

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics:

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704

tdgeek

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# 2357419 19-Nov-2019 19:13

herbthedragon:

tdgeek:

Thats the issue. Bias. A doco based on plant based diet is seen as fake. If the docs was "Meat is the best for you" that will also be fake. Why is that? Its what we do these days, every claim is bagged online. I saw a few sites, beef sites bagging the doco. Expected. But these are true are they not? Its identical to the moon landing, always a conspiracy. I saw a few sites that pretty much saw red meat as the saviour, and those stupid vegan idiots. Prior to this doco I was reading up on similar stuff.Not vegan, vegetarian or meat, related health stuff. Then I saw the doco, so to me, it seemed to male a lot of sense based on the general health site stuff I had read. But no, it's fake.

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics:

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704

Exactly. But as the internet shows, that's fake. Meat is great, the rest is a conspiracy theory. Who cares where protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, amino acids come from? Well many apparently. From what Ive read to the bagging of this concept is that meat rocks. Yes, there are shortfalls in B12. Not difficult to resolve. Does this mean we need to eat 45kg of iceberg lettuce daily? No,not quite.

darylblake

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# 2357445 19-Nov-2019 20:27

One week its Keto
One week its vegan

One week its carnivore.

Humans have been hunter/gatherers for ages. Read Sapiens.....

Ketosis is not a new thing, Veganisim is not new, hell there was a part of history when humans nurtured and cultivated wheat and lived off mainly that for thousands of years.

A balanced diet is best. With unprocessed foods. Drink water above anything else, and its hard to go wrong.

Too much animal protein will not be good for you. Lots of cancer cells feed on it.

Its also worthwhile checking out what your own body tollerates/rejects.

For some people Fish and Vegan diet is great. I struggle with dairy. I could quite happily go vegan. But most of the benefit would be myself rejecting the dairy.

Also that big weight lifter Patrik or whatever has a ridiculous amount of supplements to get 300g-400g of protein into his diet per day. Which goes to prove you can get high amounts of protein from plant based sources. This documentary is bias, and the penis thing was just stupid. Although the athletes ate well.

herbthedragon

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# 2357496 19-Nov-2019 21:37

tdgeek:

Exactly. But as the internet shows, that's fake. Meat is great, the rest is a conspiracy theory. Who cares where protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, amino acids come from? Well many apparently. From what Ive read to the bagging of this concept is that meat rocks. Yes, there are shortfalls in B12. Not difficult to resolve. Does this mean we need to eat 45kg of iceberg lettuce daily? No,not quite.

Do correct me if I'm wrong but I'm going to take that as sarcasm...

B12 should be supplemented, that's about it if you eat a variety of whole plant foods. Check out the daily dozen as a guide. Last time I checked it didn't include 45kg of iceberg lettuce!

Despite what some would have you believe, plant-based eating isn't hard or overly time-consuming. I've managed it for years, feeding a family of 7, my advice would be to get a pressure cooker and make beans your b*tch.

The Game Changers is not without it's critics though:

rhy7s

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# 2357550 19-Nov-2019 22:31

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darylblake:

...

Also that big weight lifter Patrik or whatever has a ridiculous amount of supplements to get 300g-400g of protein into his diet per day. Which goes to prove you can get high amounts of protein from plant based sources.

...

He's apparently on a 5000kcal diet, I see his weight listed at 116kg. At the 2.2g/kg upper protein intake level recommendation (for lean bodymass, which wouldn't be his body composition these days) which most sources put at more than enough for protein synthesis for bodybuilders (some outlier sources which seem to be linked to supplement purveyors go higher) he'd be wanting 255g of protein. Below is a rough example of getting to that level via whole foods. If you wanted to overcompensate, it wouldn't take much to boost that and reduce food volume if adding supplements or more processed sources. The omni side is certainly taking their fair share of whey and such, so supplementing as a strength athlete isn't exactly an aberration unique to vegans.

elpenguino

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# 2357554 19-Nov-2019 23:09

The B12 thing is very interesting. Dr Esselsteyn mentioned it in his interview with Kim Hilll.

https://www.quora.com/Where-do-animals-get-their-B12-from

No fungi, plants, or animals (including humans) are capable of synthesizing vitamin B: only bacteria and archaea have the enzymes needed for its synthesis.

Vitamin B12 - Wikipedia

So, these bacterium are present in water and soil and animals don’t drink filtered water or remove soil from there food.These bactirium travel to their gut and flourish there producing B12.

So for those on a plant based diet, like my wife, simply eat more dirt :-)

rhy7s

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# 2357558 19-Nov-2019 23:17

B12 also recommended for those over 50

Many older adults, do not have enough hydrochloric acid in their stomach to absorb the vitamin B12 naturally present in food. People over 50 should get most of their vitamin B12 from fortified foods or dietary supplements because, in most cases, their bodies can absorb vitamin B12 from these sources.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-Consumer/

tdgeek

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# 2357573 20-Nov-2019 07:33

herbthedragon:

tdgeek:

Exactly. But as the internet shows, that's fake. Meat is great, the rest is a conspiracy theory. Who cares where protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, amino acids come from? Well many apparently. From what Ive read to the bagging of this concept is that meat rocks. Yes, there are shortfalls in B12. Not difficult to resolve. Does this mean we need to eat 45kg of iceberg lettuce daily? No,not quite.

Do correct me if I'm wrong but I'm going to take that as sarcasm...

B12 should be supplemented, that's about it if you eat a variety of whole plant foods. Check out the daily dozen as a guide. Last time I checked it didn't include 45kg of iceberg lettuce!

Despite what some would have you believe, plant-based eating isn't hard or overly time-consuming. I've managed it for years, feeding a family of 7, my advice would be to get a pressure cooker and make beans your b*tch.

The Game Changers is not without it's critics though:

Yes it was sarcasm, echoing most of the posts here. I agree with you. Hence "exactly"

The doco tainted itself with poetic licence, so it got bagged. Overzealous, but that doesnt hide the fact that meat has its issues. As a side note the info on what meat uses (excessive land and water) is true, and very relevant now

tdgeek

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# 2357575 20-Nov-2019 07:41

darylblake:

A balanced diet is best. With unprocessed foods. Drink water above anything else, and its hard to go wrong.

Too much animal protein will not be good for you. Lots of cancer cells feed on it.

That's my concern, as well as cholesterol. I feel that the balanced diet is a misnomer. We are used to meat and 3 vege, and we want BBQ steaks and sausys, and curry kebabs. So we say we want balanced. In my view meat is a problem, and we can easily do without it. Red meat specifically, I will research poultry and marine. Balanced for me would be replace meat. Add supplements if needed i.e. B12. Enjoy the meat BBQ including steak when that happens. Balanced for me would be like pudding, not required but fine every now and then as a bonus. The rest is plant based, tasty, protein and carbs, and CLEAN

dafman

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# 2358389 21-Nov-2019 08:30

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.

Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

tdgeek

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# 2358390 21-Nov-2019 08:33

dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.
Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

Are you going to change to a plant based diet?

dafman

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# 2358399 21-Nov-2019 08:51

tdgeek:

dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.
Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

Are you going to change to a plant based diet?

I'm not an all-american frat boy, so clearly outside of the intended audience.

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# 2358405 21-Nov-2019 08:56

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tdgeek:
dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;

If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;

If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.

Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

Are you going to change to a plant based diet?

Four weeks into a plant based diet and my overnight erections have actually decreased!

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