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5072 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2375890 15-Dec-2019 17:07
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Radio New Zealand's 5pm news said 16 are confirmed dead now (one dead in Australian hospital) and two are still missing.

 

Who knows how many more will die?


3027 posts

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  # 2375913 15-Dec-2019 18:23
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The Government have responsibility for health and safety regulations.

 

The Government don't like to see NZ portrayed across international press as a dangerous place to visit.

 

The Government bears responsibility for body recovery and for the long term care for many of the severely injured.

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 


 
 
 
 


15342 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2375929 15-Dec-2019 19:15
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dafman:

 

The Government have responsibility for health and safety regulations.

 

The Government don't like to see NZ portrayed across international press as a dangerous place to visit.

 

The Government bears responsibility for body recovery and for the long term care for many of the severely injured.

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 

 

 

I wonder if there is going to be a royal enquiry into it? I would then presume the decision is down to them or it becomes a recommendation?


15342 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2375930 15-Dec-2019 19:17
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DarthKermit:

 

Radio New Zealand's 5pm news said 16 are confirmed dead now (one dead in Australian hospital) and two are still missing.

 

Who knows how many more will die?

 

 

 

 

I read that quite a lot are critical. So hopefully it isn't a lot more, but could take a very long time for many to recover. I don't think many of us could imagine the injuries it has caused some of them. 


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  # 2375937 15-Dec-2019 19:30
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dafman:

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 

 

 

And when they do, I hope they put money into the Whakatane region to assist them for what will be a loss, including direct compensation to island tour operators. It will be money well spent.


3512 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2375938 15-Dec-2019 19:31
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mattwnz:

DarthKermit:


Radio New Zealand's 5pm news said 16 are confirmed dead now (one dead in Australian hospital) and two are still missing.


Who knows how many more will die?



 


I read that quite a lot are critical. So hopefully it isn't a lot more, but could take a very long time for many to recover. I don't think many of us could imagine the injuries it has caused some of them. 



I believe over a certain burn ratio threshold the risk is exponentially greater :(

Seems by reports the Australian experts were equally taken by surprise by the complexity. Mix contaminants with steam burns and add acidity. Can't fathom the ongoing requirements they'll no doubt now face.

5072 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2376012 15-Dec-2019 21:24
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With burns that extensive and bad, I'm not sure I'd want to survive. These people didn't choose to die however.

 

The NZ Police website lists these eight names as confirmed deceased:

 

  • Berend Lawrence Hollander
  • Matthew Robert Hollander
  • Karla Michelle Mathews
  • Tipene James Te Rangi Ataahua Maangi
  • Zoe Ella Hosking
  • Gavin Brian Dallow
  • Anthony James Langford
  • Krystal Eve Browitt

 

 

The other seven confirmed dead whose bodies are in NZ have not been officially named yet.

 

The two still missing have not been officially named yet.


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek

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  # 2376014 15-Dec-2019 21:25
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dafman:

 

dafman:

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 

 

 

And when they do, I hope they put money into the Whakatane region to assist them for what will be a loss, including direct compensation to island tour operators. It will be money well spent.

 

 

WHY?

 

The tour operators decided the safety margin. Alert 2 is ok to collect money.


645 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2376025 15-Dec-2019 21:53
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mattwnz:

 

dafman:

 

The Government have responsibility for health and safety regulations.

 

The Government don't like to see NZ portrayed across international press as a dangerous place to visit.

 

The Government bears responsibility for body recovery and for the long term care for many of the severely injured.

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 

 

 

I wonder if there is going to be a royal enquiry into it? I would then presume the decision is down to them or it becomes a recommendation?

 

 

These are the three levels of government enquiry:

 

Royal Commission
Public Inquiry
Government Inquiry

 

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Different-types-of-government-reviews

 

Quite a number of issues to cover, including unregistered adventure tour operators and whether tour operators should be allowed to make their own judgement calls or whether all visits should be banned during periods of alert levels 1 or 2. 

 

Right now on the geonet web site, it shows White Island at alert level 2 and Ruapehu at alert level 1.





#include <standard.disclaimer>


206 posts

Master Geek


  # 2376078 16-Dec-2019 08:44
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tdgeek:

 

dafman:

 

dafman:

 

They won't risk a repeat; they will close the island to foot tourists. 

 

 

And when they do, I hope they put money into the Whakatane region to assist them for what will be a loss, including direct compensation to island tour operators. It will be money well spent.

 

 

WHY?

 

The tour operators decided the safety margin. Alert 2 is ok to collect money.

 

 

The Iwi will want compensation for sure. 


14601 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2376099 16-Dec-2019 09:09
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@Mahon  Whakaari/White Island is privately owned by the Buttle family of Auckland.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


1260 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2376101 16-Dec-2019 09:13
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118198421/whakaariwhite-island-eruption-royal-caribbean-exceedingly-reckless-sending-passengers

 

Brief extracts from above:

 

Cruise ship passengers affected by the White Island/Whakaari eruption could be entitled to millions of dollars in damages under United States maritime law, a Miami-based lawyer says.

 

Of the 47 people that were on or near White Island/Whakaari when it erupted on December 9, 38 were from the ocean liner Ovation of the Seas operated by global cruise ship company Royal Caribbean.

 

Jim Walker from Walker and O'Neill Maritime Lawyers in Miami said cruise ship passengers affected by the eruption were, under US maritime law, entitled to a full range of damages such as pain and suffering, grief and bereavement, lost wages, disfigurement and medical expenses.

 

Walker said there appeared to be no written warning from Royal Caribbean to passengers that the excursion to White Island/Whakaari could cause injury or death or that the island was experiencing heightened volcanic activity.

 

"Sending families without a warning into the crater with virtually no way to flee when it was more likely than normal for the volcano to erupt is exceedingly reckless."

 

So there we have it, and sure, in hindsight it may have been "exceedingly reckless", but it seems that tourists have often been taken to the island when the alert level has been at "2".


735 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2376105 16-Dec-2019 09:19
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Does US Maritime law apply to NZ Territorial waters?  Or is it a case of the usual blood thirsty US lawyers out for their cut of the action as they are used to from many cases within their own country?





1260 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2376109 16-Dec-2019 09:26
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geoffwnz:

 

Does US Maritime law apply to NZ Territorial waters?  Or is it a case of the usual blood thirsty US lawyers out for their cut of the action as they are used to from many cases within their own country?

 

 

Also from the article:

 

Walker said in 2017 its sister company Celebrity Cruises was successfully sued in Miami for injuries to its guests in New Zealand who were involved in a tour bus accident in the South Island. 

 

So, it might be wise for Royal Caribbean to advise passengers that tours of Wellington, for example, are more risky than those in Auckland because the risk of damaging earthquakes is higher in Wellington than in Auckland etc etc. 


735 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2376114 16-Dec-2019 09:31
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frednz:

 

geoffwnz:

 

Does US Maritime law apply to NZ Territorial waters?  Or is it a case of the usual blood thirsty US lawyers out for their cut of the action as they are used to from many cases within their own country?

 

 

Also from the article:

 

Walker said in 2017 its sister company Celebrity Cruises was successfully sued in Miami for injuries to its guests in New Zealand who were involved in a tour bus accident in the South Island. 

 

So, it might be wise for Royal Caribbean to advise passengers that tours of Wellington, for example, are more risky than those in Auckland because the risk of damaging earthquakes is higher in Wellington than in Auckland etc etc. 

 

 

So basically NZ is not involved in these cases in the slightest.  US lawyers vs the cruise companies by the looks of it.





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