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  # 2376137 16-Dec-2019 10:06
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Oblivian: 

 

I read that quite a lot are critical. So hopefully it isn't a lot more, but could take a very long time for many to recover. I don't think many of us could imagine the injuries it has caused some of them. 

 

I believe over a certain burn ratio threshold the risk is exponentially greater :(

Seems by reports the Australian experts were equally taken by surprise by the complexity. Mix contaminants with steam burns and add acidity. Can't fathom the ongoing requirements they'll no doubt now face.

 

When I was a paediatric nurse, the burns ward was one of my least favourite wards to work on. Carrying out burns & meningococcal septicaemic skin; baths, debridement and dressings was quite harrowing. Most times the patients were out to it or in fairy land, on heavy pain relievers and continuous Nitrous Oxide gas.

 

The two biggest concerns with any of these patients, no matter how deep the burns or necrotic skin is, is infection and hydration. Remember the skin is the bodies largest organ covering 1.5 to 2.0 square metres. Humans are endoskeleton therefore the skin holds everything inside and in place. You damage the skin and that area becomes a portal for anything and everything to enter the body. Hence the report that ED staff was sent running down to the nearest supermarket to buy up glad-wrap by the trolley load.

 

I remember a crawler, nearly walking, who had pulled opened the already partial opened oven door, climbed onto the door and reached up and pulled down a pot of boiling liquid. Greater than 80% coverage. The mother at the time was just walking out of the adjoining laundry and saw it all in slow motion. She picked the child up, rushed back into the laundry where she had just filled the washing machine, pulled the washing out (it was one of with the fin less agitator types) and she placed the infant into the machine then rang 000. Quick thinking yes but should not have left the oven door open.

 

So remember 15 to 25 minutes of running water and then wrap in glad-wrap is the best first aid for burns. If no glad-wrap then wet, clean cloths.

 

 

 

 





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  # 2376248 16-Dec-2019 13:08
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Police have named an additional four victims, bringing the total named to 12. They are Australians Jessica Richards, 20, Jason David Griffiths, 33, Martin Berend Hollander, 48, and Kristine Elizabeth Langford, 45.


There are currently 16 victims, 15 in New Zealand and one in Australia.


There are still two victims missing.


That leaves three victims yet to be officially named.



Mod edit (MF): removed unconfirmed names.




Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?


 
 
 
 


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  # 2376385 16-Dec-2019 15:46
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frednz:

 

"Sending families without a warning into the crater with virtually no way to flee when it was more likely than normal for the volcano to erupt is exceedingly reckless."

 

 

Define "normal". It's actually pretty normal for White Island to erupt from time to time.

 

 


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  # 2376391 16-Dec-2019 15:49
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FineWine:

 

I remember a crawler, nearly walking, who had pulled opened the already partial opened oven door, climbed onto the door and reached up and pulled down a pot of boiling liquid.

 

 

Almost word-for-word how one of my cousins died. :( :( :(

 

 


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  # 2376442 16-Dec-2019 17:02
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frankv:

 

FineWine:

 

I remember a crawler, nearly walking, who had pulled opened the already partial opened oven door, climbed onto the door and reached up and pulled down a pot of boiling liquid.

 

 

Almost word-for-word how one of my cousins died. :( :( :(

 

😞

 

This child survived and would be a young adult now and would have gone through 20 odd years of fasciotomies, tissue expansions and grafts (auto grafting and donated grafting) as he grew into adulthood. Scarred tissue (keliod tissue or in severe cases hypertrophic scarring) does not grow or expand like normal tissue which creates difficulties, especially in functional areas, like joints but also blood vessel, sweat gland and nerve damage are all dangerous complications.

 

Even since I started nursing in 1991 there have been leaps and bounds in tissue regeneration, skin transplant technology and burns treatment in general. But also there are now better hydrogel creams, tinctures, ointments and dressings to help keep the regrowth areas, natural & transplant, infection free and moisten and lessen the ugly scarring of yesteryear. There is even a lab grown 'spray-on-skin' invented by an Australian plastics doctor in the 1990's which was crucial post the Bali bombings. Even the physiotherapy has changed.

 

The survival rate of this disaster will be greater now than 20 or even 10 years ago but the personal and social cost will be the same and their life's and the life's of those around them have been irreversibly altered for ever.

 

May they recover to the best that nature, technology and our societal can give them.





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  # 2376634 16-Dec-2019 21:29
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This is an excellent current summary of burns management for the White Island patients:

 

Radio NZ - Heated theatres, cadaver skin - how Whakaari burns victims are being treated

 

From Checkpoint, 5:15 pm today, 16 Dec 2019

 

Not for the faint hearted ...

 

 





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  # 2376643 16-Dec-2019 21:54
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Various news organisations have named some of the five people I've listed above as deceased, even though the police have not yet officially confirmed their identities. None of us yet know which of the five names relate to the three bodies they have.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2376692 17-Dec-2019 06:27
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frankv:

 

frednz:

 

"Sending families without a warning into the crater with virtually no way to flee when it was more likely than normal for the volcano to erupt is exceedingly reckless."

 

 

Define "normal". It's actually pretty normal for White Island to erupt from time to time.

 

 

 

 

It does, every few years. In between it simmers (alert 1) becomes unstable (alert2) and alert 2 was when they still tour there. Its far more likely to erupt when unstable. So, while its always a risk, if you avoid times when its pressurising, that would remove the more likely than normal risk.


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  # 2376760 17-Dec-2019 08:54
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Very well. I'll only list the last few names once the police website confirms them.


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  # 2376916 17-Dec-2019 12:04
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Police have released the names of the last three victims:

 

Richard Aaron ELZER
Barbara Jean HOLLANDER

 

Julie RICHARDS

 


And also the names of the two missing victims:

 

Hayden Bryan MARSHALL-INMAN
Winona Jane LANGFORD

 

 

 

That accounts for everyone now.

 

[Edited because I made a mistake with the names sorry.]

 

[Edited again.] Here's a link to the official police communication: Name release


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  # 2377513 18-Dec-2019 10:10
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GV27:

 

Good piece here:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118237273/whakaariwhite-island-criticising-experts-in-the-wake-of-tragedy

 

 

What that above linked article doesn't mention was one of the helicopter pilots had moved his mate (one of the still missing victims) to a safer position and made him more comfortable before flying back to the mainland with some of the other survivors. This pilot was stopped by the authorities from going back to get his mate. Now he is missing possibly never to be found. I would be absolutely devastated if I were that pilot. When the inevitable enquiry is held I hope there is some questions asked about this.

 

Another very good article here. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118219897/after-whakaariwhite-island-its-up-to-us-to-save-ourselves

 

 





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  # 2377518 18-Dec-2019 10:19
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Technofreak:

 

GV27:

 

Good piece here:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118237273/whakaariwhite-island-criticising-experts-in-the-wake-of-tragedy

 

 

What that above linked article doesn't mention was one of the helicopter pilots had moved his mate (one of the still missing victims) to a safer position and made him more comfortable before flying back to the mainland with some of the other survivors. This pilot was stopped by the authorities from going back to get his mate. Now he is missing possibly never to be found. I would be absolutely devastated if I were that pilot. When the inevitable enquiry is held I hope there is some questions asked about this.

 

Another very good article here. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118219897/after-whakaariwhite-island-its-up-to-us-to-save-ourselves

 

 

"OPINION: The tragedy at Whakaari/White Island last week exposed a growing institutional cowardice among emergency services, particularly police, that affects their usefulness to citizens."

 

What this article fails to mention is that this advocates putting lives in danger in order to save precisely zero lives. If that's cowardice then I guess I'm fine with the police and others being cowards if there are no lives at stake. 

 

Maybe some people should remember that the SAS of all people couldn't get the job done 'in 20 minutes' with extremely specialised equipment and any such attempt would have almost certainly resulted in further fatalities or rescue efforts being needed.

 

 


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  # 2377523 18-Dec-2019 10:29
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Technofreak:

 

GV27:

 

Good piece here:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118237273/whakaariwhite-island-criticising-experts-in-the-wake-of-tragedy

 

 

What that above linked article doesn't mention was one of the helicopter pilots had moved his mate (one of the still missing victims) to a safer position and made him more comfortable before flying back to the mainland with some of the other survivors. This pilot was stopped by the authorities from going back to get his mate. Now he is missing possibly never to be found. I would be absolutely devastated if I were that pilot. When the inevitable enquiry is held I hope there is some questions asked about this.

 

Another very good article here. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118219897/after-whakaariwhite-island-its-up-to-us-to-save-ourselves

 

 

That is the very definition of NOT a very good article.  It's a sh!t stirring beat up made from the comfort of an air conditioned office and approximately zero real knowledge, skills or experience in the environment that presented itself to responders and rescuers.

 

As was stated in the first linked article that actually had some balance, decisions have to be made in these circumstances without emotion.  If that defines "cowardice" then I'll fully put my hand up to being a coward also.





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