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  #2371841 10-Dec-2019 14:57
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duckDecoy:

 

Geektastic:  I still see a fair bit of what might be termed a lack of attention to detail amongst some providers.

 

Any chance you can enlighten us on what to avoid ?  Those of us not in the tourist industry probably won't know what to be looking out for.

 

 

 

 

Number one - any company doing helicopter flights in Robinsons!

 

 

 

Without naming names, things I have encountered have included frayed lifejackets which may or may not function when needed, no PLB's on trips which IMV should have had them, staff attitudes that lacked the (IMV) requisite seriousness and correct common sense, First Aid kits that were inadequate for the size of the group, inexperienced staff being placed in positions of sole responsibility. One company I guide for occasionally has attempted to pressure me into taking their clients out shooting, which I refuse to do on the grounds that I am not a shooting instructor or a trained Range Officer so it would be unwise and (legally at least) unsafe. They have verged on bullying trying to get me to do it. I have seen quad bike operators with machines that certainly look less than in good order using staff who would be barely able to lift the machine if it trapped a client. Transport drivers using cellphones when driving.

 

There are many companies that are extremely good at safety and the necessary staff training, procedure and who invest in good equipment which is well maintained. There are some on the margins, especially in areas that have less tourist traffic, who are not so much.

 

The company that used to operate the White Island trips, PeeJays, sold the White Island business last year and I have not been with the new owner. PeeJays were very good with the H&S stuff and briefed well, but of course an unexpected eruption is not really a plannable event. They certainly always gave the impression that they expected warning and would cancel in that event - and they pointed out some of the monitoring equipment when on the island as part of the spiel on the tour.






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Master Geek


  #2371863 10-Dec-2019 16:01
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Just listen that voice mail and his mom talks about how she try to get information on his son. Couldn't imagine have to listen such voice mail in the middle of the night.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/12/09/new-zealand-volcano-eruption-acfc-full-episode-vpx.cnn


 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  #2371893 10-Dec-2019 16:52
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Have a British friend on the Ovation and cannot contact her.
Hope she is ok.

Been in vicinity of St Helen when it went off back then.
Was not a nice experience.
Have a rather healthy respect for ANY volcanoes since

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Ultimate Geek


  #2371894 10-Dec-2019 16:52
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empacher48:

 

In that case, who pays for all the infrastructure on Rupaheu should it be forced to close during a ski season, just because it happens to be at level 2?

 

 

 

 

It should be considered a cost of business and services priced with consideration of the possibility of it happening and being able to sustain itself during that downtime. Much like late ski seasons where they have to wait for snowfall. 


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  #2371963 10-Dec-2019 18:39
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GV27:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118071975/whakaariwhite-island-owner-the-buttle-family-declines-to-comment-after-deadly-eruption

 

White Island Tours chairman Paul Quinn told TVNZ on Tuesday morning two of its staff were unaccounted for following the eruption.

 

"We take our health and safety responsibilities very seriously and this is a big tragedy unfortunately for us," Quinn said.

 

In 2018 it took 17,500 visitors to the island, he said.

 

It received reports from New Zealand Crown Research Institute GNS on what volcanic activity levels were on the island, he said.

 

It was deemed safe for tours to operate if it was at "level two" or below, as it was yesterday, subject to weather, he said.

 

"We take our steer from GNS on that."

 

 

The details seemed more than ok for travel to me. WI has a regular cycle, it was approaching that. Wait till alert 2 is alert 1? No sales.

 

Paula Bennet and the PM have echoed something needs to be checked. PB said the land killed them, the land needs to protect them, or words to that effect

 

This isnt Kilauea


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  #2371964 10-Dec-2019 18:43
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Geektastic:

 

duckDecoy:

 

Geektastic:  I still see a fair bit of what might be termed a lack of attention to detail amongst some providers.

 

Any chance you can enlighten us on what to avoid ?  Those of us not in the tourist industry probably won't know what to be looking out for.

 

 

 

 

Number one - any company doing helicopter flights in Robinsons!

 

 

 

Without naming names, things I have encountered have included frayed lifejackets which may or may not function when needed, no PLB's on trips which IMV should have had them, staff attitudes that lacked the (IMV) requisite seriousness and correct common sense, First Aid kits that were inadequate for the size of the group, inexperienced staff being placed in positions of sole responsibility. One company I guide for occasionally has attempted to pressure me into taking their clients out shooting, which I refuse to do on the grounds that I am not a shooting instructor or a trained Range Officer so it would be unwise and (legally at least) unsafe. They have verged on bullying trying to get me to do it. I have seen quad bike operators with machines that certainly look less than in good order using staff who would be barely able to lift the machine if it trapped a client. Transport drivers using cellphones when driving.

 

There are many companies that are extremely good at safety and the necessary staff training, procedure and who invest in good equipment which is well maintained. There are some on the margins, especially in areas that have less tourist traffic, who are not so much.

 

The company that used to operate the White Island trips, PeeJays, sold the White Island business last year and I have not been with the new owner. PeeJays were very good with the H&S stuff and briefed well, but of course an unexpected eruption is not really a plannable event. They certainly always gave the impression that they expected warning and would cancel in that event - and they pointed out some of the monitoring equipment when on the island as part of the spiel on the tour.

 

an be

 

The alerts are not a planned eruption, but they are alerts that can be an eruption. Or as media has reported, stray ballistics everywhere. This is not lets go to a peak nearby and watch


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  #2371965 10-Dec-2019 18:46
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Hunter: Have a British friend on the Ovation and cannot contact her.
Hope she is ok.

Been in vicinity of St Helen when it went off back then.
Was not a nice experience.
Have a rather healthy respect for ANY volcanoes since

 

Sad to hear. If anyone of us was visiting volcanoes, that will be very cool, but the issue here is that you visit a crater. Not a nearby location. When we have seen big ones erupt, warnings are there to evacuate, they are miles from the crater, not in the crater


 
 
 
 


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  #2371973 10-Dec-2019 19:07
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Geektastic: Number one - any company doing helicopter flights in Robinsons!

 

This made me laugh! My late father was in the CAA many years ago. He used to repeatedly tell my brother and I to never get into a Robinson.


gzt

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  #2372000 10-Dec-2019 20:42
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I was shocked when I heard. After the horror my first thought was about those people who risked their lives to get people off the island. The rescue crew that came in later by helicopter to look for survivors were taking similar risks. The other helicopters who searched for survivors from the air. Massive respect for those people.

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  #2372137 10-Dec-2019 22:58
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The death toll has risen to six now, as one of the rescued has died from his or her burns. Sounds like there could be others dying from the same unfortunately.

 

There are still eight uncounted for on the island. The Red Cross missing list has a lot more names.


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Uber Geek


  #2372139 10-Dec-2019 23:06
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DarthKermit:

 

The death toll has risen to six now, as one of the rescued has died from his or her burns. Sounds like there could be others dying from the same unfortunately.

 

There are still eight uncounted for on the island. The Red Cross missing list has a lot more names.

 

 

 

 

I had read on the Australian news that most of the 31 injured have burned to at least  70% of their body, and quite a few may not make it. Apparently they got a years worth of burns injuries all in one day. But I then read in a NZ news story that most had burns to at least 30% of their body.Also there are a lot of internal burns from breathing it in. The whole thing is terrible.


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  #2372144 10-Dec-2019 23:27
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Dratsab:

Geektastic: Number one - any company doing helicopter flights in Robinsons!


This made me laugh! My late father was in the CAA many years ago. He used to repeatedly tell my brother and I to never get into a Robinson.



He was evidently a wise man!





15423 posts

Uber Geek


  #2372150 11-Dec-2019 00:34
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gzt: I was shocked when I heard. After the horror my first thought was about those people who risked their lives to get people off the island. The rescue crew that came in later by helicopter to look for survivors were taking similar risks. The other helicopters who searched for survivors from the air. Massive respect for those people.

 

 

 

This is also where drones are very valuable tools. 


1288 posts

Uber Geek


  #2372183 11-Dec-2019 08:53
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118097455/white-island-volcano-disaster-unlucky-timing-or-unsafe-system

 

Brief extract from the above:

 

Emeritus Professor Ray Cas, from the School of Earth, Atmosphere and Environment at Monash University in Melbourne, has visited White Island twice and believes the risks faced by daily boat and helicopter tour groups are too great.

 

"White Island has been a disaster waiting to happen for many years. "I have always felt that it was too dangerous."

 

His explanation of an eruption highlights the dangers he is talking about.

 

An explosion ejected hot rock, sometimes also fresh magma, large volumes of volcanic gas and superheated steam. These produced a hot plume of gas and rock that rose to potentially heights of thousands of metres. "

 

"The temperature of the erupting mass can be several hundred degrees Celsius.

 

Hazards include rock projectiles, noxious gases and burns from the hot gas cloud."

 

Now there is going to be a criminal investigation into this disaster, I wonder how many other "experts", with hindsight, will say they have "always felt that it was too dangerous".

 

I guess it's always been pretty dangerous to get into an aeroplane as well, heaps of them have crashed and killed people. Also, walking the Tongariro alpine crossing can be pretty dangerous, so adventure tourism etc have lots of risks. Having said that, I often fly in aeroplanes, but I would never walk on a live volcano!


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Ultimate Geek


  #2372198 11-Dec-2019 09:30
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frednz:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118097455/white-island-volcano-disaster-unlucky-timing-or-unsafe-system

 

Brief extract from the above:

 

Emeritus Professor Ray Cas, from the School of Earth, Atmosphere and Environment at Monash University in Melbourne, has visited White Island twice and believes the risks faced by daily boat and helicopter tour groups are too great.

 

"White Island has been a disaster waiting to happen for many years. "I have always felt that it was too dangerous."

 

His explanation of an eruption highlights the dangers he is talking about.

 

An explosion ejected hot rock, sometimes also fresh magma, large volumes of volcanic gas and superheated steam. These produced a hot plume of gas and rock that rose to potentially heights of thousands of metres. "

 

"The temperature of the erupting mass can be several hundred degrees Celsius.

 

Hazards include rock projectiles, noxious gases and burns from the hot gas cloud."

 

Now there is going to be a criminal investigation into this disaster, I wonder how many other "experts", with hindsight, will say they have "always felt that it was too dangerous".

 

I guess it's always been pretty dangerous to get into an aeroplane as well, heaps of them have crashed and killed people. Also, walking the Tongariro alpine crossing can be pretty dangerous, so adventure tourism etc have lots of risks. Having said that, I often fly in aeroplanes, but I would never walk on a live volcano!

 

 

Been to Taupo?  Auckland?  Tongariro National Park?  All "live" volcanoes (where "live" means could potentially erupt).

 

Hindsight is great.  I would like to know what the alert level was for White Island when this "expert" visited twice.  It's very easy to say "oh, it was building up to an eruption" after the fact.but I would put money on if he had been asked a week ago if he could categorically state that there would be an eruption based on what was being observed, he would have said, "probably not".





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