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Lock him up!
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  # 2372199 11-Dec-2019 09:37
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I haven't been on White Island myself but I took some visitors there a few years ago. I think it is safe to say that most tourists who go want the adventure of being up close to a volcano but not the risk of actually being caught by an eruption. They regard it as something similar to a scary roller-coaster ride or a bungee jump - pretend danger that gives a thrill without any cost. People who venture onto White Island don't expect it to erupt. In that regard they are misinformed, either through ignorance or misleading information. I know my friends (and I) never would have expected such a thing. In a case like this, I don't think the victims reasonably could have been expected to understand the risk. If there are businesses offering guided tours, you would probably assume they must know what they are doing. My thoughts go out to the victims and I don't think they can be blamed for not knowing better. That responsibility lies with the tour promoters.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2372202 11-Dec-2019 09:53
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The company certainly did state clearly that there was always the risk of it erupting.

I agree people probably wouldn't expect it to, but I suppose a lot of things happen people don't expect. Humans are good at ignoring risks when it suits them!





 
 
 
 


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  # 2372205 11-Dec-2019 09:56
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geoffwnz:

 

 

 

Been to Taupo?  Auckland?  Tongariro National Park?  All "live" volcanoes (where "live" means could potentially erupt).

 

Hindsight is great.  I would like to know what the alert level was for White Island when this "expert" visited twice.  It's very easy to say "oh, it was building up to an eruption" after the fact.but I would put money on if he had been asked a week ago if he could categorically state that there would be an eruption based on what was being observed, he would have said, "probably not".

 

 

Also Northland, Taranaki, Wellington, Bank Peninsular, Tarawera. Any Volcano even those long time sleeping have the potential to erupt. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2372225 11-Dec-2019 10:04
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The police concluded that there are potential criminal charges arising from the events at White Island, with DPC John Tims announcing at a media conference that they would proceed with a criminal investigation.

 

 

 

Two hours later police minister Stuart Nash retracted this, calling Tims' statement a "slip of the tongue", in spite of the fact that Tims was clearly reading from a prepared media statement.

 

 

 

This leaves me feeling more than a bit uneasy.




McLean


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  # 2372230 11-Dec-2019 10:08
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mclean: The police concluded that there are potential criminal charges arising from the events at White Island, with DPC John Tims announcing at a media conference that they would proceed with a criminal investigation.   Two hours later police minister Stuart Nash retracted this, calling Tims' statement a "slip of the tongue", in spite of the fact that Tims was clearly reading from a prepared media statement.   This leaves me feeling more than a bit uneasy.

 

The Police investigate sudden or accidental deaths as a matter or course.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2372283 11-Dec-2019 10:43
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The latest GNS bulletin states that volcanic tremors have increase significantly this morning showing that pressures are still very high. The alert is still at 3 and aircraft alert at orange.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2372290 11-Dec-2019 10:50
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MikeB4:The Police investigate sudden or accidental deaths as a matter or course.

 

So why the embarrassing retraction?  Maybe political correctness or political expediency?





McLean


 
 
 
 


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  # 2372293 11-Dec-2019 10:53
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mclean:

 

MikeB4:The Police investigate sudden or accidental deaths as a matter or course.

 

So why the embarrassing retraction?  Maybe political correctness or political expediency?

 

 

It is probably to de-escalate given the high international press attention. It may also be to calm relatives etc. It was probably too early in proceedings to make such statements. I wouldn't over think it.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2372295 11-Dec-2019 10:58
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The latest news says there are 25 patients in critical condition.

 

We can probably expect more deaths to come. All those who survive will have horrible burns to cope with. :(


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  # 2372313 11-Dec-2019 11:05
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MikeB4:

 

The latest GNS bulletin states that volcanic tremors have increase significantly this morning showing that pressures are still very high. The alert is still at 3 and aircraft alert at orange.

 

 

Underlines the total irresponsibility of putting microphones in the faces of locals desperate to recover their loved ones while they're still coming to terms with their deaths. 

 

The bloke this morning saying things were 'perfect' for a recovery is not a geologist or volcanologist. But even from the very basic graphs Geonet puts out, you can see still see escalating RSAM activity. We just need to let the people who are qualified to do their jobs do them.


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  # 2372320 11-Dec-2019 11:26
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By perfect I assume he means weather conditions.


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  # 2372323 11-Dec-2019 11:35
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DarthKermit:

 

By perfect I assume he means weather conditions.

 

 

People need to be SO careful about what they say in these situations. Anything slightly open to interpretation will be jumped on and potentially misinterpreted by those who are possibly not thinking clearly due to grief.

 

The press should really be being super careful what they ask and what they publish to stop any further misunderstandings.

 

Ultimately, if this thing can literally blow with zero notice at all, then in my view, it's definitely not safe to send people to recover bodies. I hope the police will not fold to pressure and send people over earlier than is deemed safe.

 

 

 

 


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  # 2372324 11-Dec-2019 11:36
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MikeB4:

 

The latest GNS bulletin states that volcanic tremors have increase significantly this morning showing that pressures are still very high. The alert is still at 3 and aircraft alert at orange.

 

 

There should be no talk of recovery at this point. Whilst I understand that families will want their loved ones back, we are not trying to rescue, we are recovering bodies and the priority should categorically be on ensuring the safety of the people recovering those bodies.

 

If they have to be out there for 3 months, so be it.

 

This is a tragedy, but it could become so much more so, if the recovery team gets injured or killed.

 

 


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  # 2372337 11-Dec-2019 12:01
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Priority order for risk assessment is:

 

  • Self
  • Team
  • Equipment
  • Bystanders
  • Environment
  • Casualties

It's harsh but you can't help others if you become compromised yourself.
Casualties are already compromised and yes, it sucks to walk (run if necessary) away from someone begging for help but unless you want to add yourself to the victims list, that's unfortunately what has to be done.





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  # 2372339 11-Dec-2019 12:03
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networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

The latest GNS bulletin states that volcanic tremors have increase significantly this morning showing that pressures are still very high. The alert is still at 3 and aircraft alert at orange.

 

 

There should be no talk of recovery at this point. Whilst I understand that families will want their loved ones back, we are not trying to rescue, we are recovering bodies and the priority should categorically be on ensuring the safety of the people recovering those bodies.

 

If they have to be out there for 3 months, so be it.

 

This is a tragedy, but it could become so much more so, if the recovery team gets injured or killed.

 

 

 

 

That I leave to the experts on the ground. I feel that if they are certain there is no sign of life then waiting to recover maybe the prudent thing to do. My heart goes out to those who must wait, it would be a nightmare each hour and day they must wait.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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