Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7


Lock him up!
11187 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386179 6-Jan-2020 16:06
Send private message quote this post

floydbloke:

 

That is of course your prerogative.  Just as it is the retailer's to not want to do business with someone because they deem it too financially risky or the cost-of-sale is too high.

 

 

Yep. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


1094 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2386181 6-Jan-2020 16:08
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

Doing this, or anything like it, is a hassle that costs time and effort. Why should good faith customers have to put up with it?

 

 

They shouldn't. It is however important to point out that the card fee is not the customer's problem if things aren't done right.


 
 
 
 


9100 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386197 6-Jan-2020 17:03
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

There is a certain arrogance in assuming that the way you do things is the way everyone else should,

 

 

rather ironic dont you think?


2780 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2386208 6-Jan-2020 17:10
10 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

It's beyond me why anyone would start a thread on a discussion forum and then rant about why others have a different view...

22900 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2386213 6-Jan-2020 17:30
6 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

Without my money (and that of others, of course), the business will go out of business. It will fail and people won't get paid. The retailer exists by grace of the willingness of its customers to buy stuff from it. It is not doing me a favour by selling to me. I am doing it a favour by giving it my money. It ought to be kissing my feet in gratitude. Instead, it gives me a bunch of crap. It is an odd way to do business, but yes, it has every right to cut its nose off. It doesn't have to sell to me.

 

More to the point, I don't have to buy from it. My money is lost to it. That is indeed a strange way to do business.

 

 

Clearly a majority of people are happy to buy from them, with the exchange for slightly lower prices than other retails being that they have a card fee, and you may have to authenticate your card with them. Your money doesnt mean jack to them if you are going to waste their time over things like this and I expect they are happier not to be doing business under those conditions.





Richard rich.ms

826 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2386220 6-Jan-2020 17:38
7 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

The issue here is I wanted to spend money with a retailer and the retailer made silly demands after the fact and I refused to meet them. So I asked for my money back and went to a more accommodating retailer. Problem solved.

 

 

 

This isn't strictly accurate. You wanted to spend someone else's money. You've been extended credit by that company. If you walked in store, paid with cash or EFTPOS there wouldn't be an issue. 

 

Sadly the world has changed, you can't simply ring up with a credit card number, or enter it online without some cursory checks. I'm not trying defend PBTECH for the extra step that other merchants don't necessarily have, but it is due to fraud and anti money laundering requirements which are becoming more stringent (I used to work for a bank, now a finance company). 

 

You are perfectly entitled to shop elsewhere, but if you are using a method of payment that PBTech deems higher risk then they have asked for an extra step. And sadly, like cheques, traditional banking is becoming obsolete.




Lock him up!
11187 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386222 6-Jan-2020 17:50
Send private message quote this post

Jase2985:

 

Rikkitic:

 

There is a certain arrogance in assuming that the way you do things is the way everyone else should,

 

 

rather ironic dont you think?

 

 

Nope. People keep missing my point. I am not saying everyone should do things the way I do. I am saying everyone should quit implying there is something wrong with me because I don't do things that way everyone else does. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 




Lock him up!
11187 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386224 6-Jan-2020 17:51
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Handle9: It's beyond me why anyone would start a thread on a discussion forum and then rant about why others have a different view...

 

If that is what you think then you misunderstand me.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




Lock him up!
11187 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386225 6-Jan-2020 17:53
Send private message quote this post

mudguard:

 

This isn't strictly accurate. You wanted to spend someone else's money. You've been extended credit by that company. If you walked in store, paid with cash or EFTPOS there wouldn't be an issue. 

 

Sadly the world has changed, you can't simply ring up with a credit card number, or enter it online without some cursory checks. I'm not trying defend PBTECH for the extra step that other merchants don't necessarily have, but it is due to fraud and anti money laundering requirements which are becoming more stringent (I used to work for a bank, now a finance company). 

 

You are perfectly entitled to shop elsewhere, but if you are using a method of payment that PBTech deems higher risk then they have asked for an extra step. And sadly, like cheques, traditional banking is becoming obsolete.

 

 

I don't quite understand what you are saying. I use a debit card, so I only want to spend my money. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


826 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2386231 6-Jan-2020 17:58
Send private message quote this post

I stand corrected, I can't recall the protections or requirements of a (VISA) debit card? I didn't think you could pay with a plain EFTPOS card.

 

I'd assume the same process would apply if it is VISA debit card. 


22900 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2386233 6-Jan-2020 18:00
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Still get all the risk for the merchant as far as charge backs, and minimal protection for the card holder since its their own money, and no rewards for the card holder to make up for the fees that PB Tech tack on to cover the merchant costs. Don't know why anyone would volenterally have one instead of a credit card.

 

Wish ASB and mighty ape there is online eftpos that solves all these problems, but that's only one bank and one retailer so hardly going to change the world of payments.





Richard rich.ms

1599 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 2386328 6-Jan-2020 21:00
12 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

I am doing it a favour by giving it my money. It ought to be kissing my feet in gratitude. Instead, it gives me a bunch of crap. It is an odd way to do business, but yes, it has every right to cut its nose off. It doesn't have to sell to me.

 

More to the point, I don't have to buy from it. My money is lost to it. That is indeed a strange way to do business.

 

 

This is where you are going wrong. There's nothing morally wrong per se with you holding particular preferences around not using internet banking (although it's not one that I think most will comprehend). But you're just kidding yourself if you think that every business should simply chase every dollar from every customer at all cost and that their core customers should happily support that approach. The clever businesses in this world actually realise that certain customers and/or their preferences are just too costly to service -- for illustrative examples, see how many banks are phasing out cheques and reducing their branch network, despite the usual grey pooer protestations about how many of their ilk desire human contact (bank staff aren't social workers) or just prefer in-person transactions.

 

I used to work for a couple of publicly traded banks and have seen the data: the vast majority of their customers do not visit the branch network with any great deal of frequency nor place a great deal of value on their existence. I accept that for essential services (and banking is one) there has to be some accommodation for people who just aren't technology-savvy enough to do things online or require assistance due to disability etc but you can see through the closing/reduction of bank branches and banks pooling resources into the regional hubs that they are focusing on real needs and not just accommodating every esoteric preference.

 

People who are in the business of selling commodities (despite most retailers' pretensions to the contrary, most are in the business of selling commodities in the true sense of the word) largely compete on price, availability of goods, and range. I have been vocal in my criticism of PB but in terms of their core product range, their prices, availability, and range of choices are mostly good/very good and sometimes even excellent. In an industry largely filled with complacent retailers who really aren't retailers in the true sense of the word (i.e. they just drop-ship stock held by the distributor) that offer bugger-all service and close at 3pm on Saturdays and don't open on Sundays, these people instead are open in strategic locations, with long hours, and lots of stuff on hand for people to buy at mostly pretty good prices, and sometimes relatively informed and helpful staff on hand to assist customers.

 

Any kind of threat to their bottom line (any retailer would identify credit card fraud as one such threat) is only likely to lead to the reduction of their utility to the great majority of their customers. So in this case it's both commercially sensible and customer-centric on their part to look to reduce that risk. If it inconveniences a small minority, I fully endorse their approach and expect them to continue for  their core customers' benefit and for the sake of their genuine bottomline.

 

 




Lock him up!
11187 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386507 7-Jan-2020 10:59
Send private message quote this post

I feel it is time to bring this thread to a conclusion and I will try to make this my last post. It seems to have gone in two main directions, one  dealing with the business methods (and my reaction to them) of PB Tech and other companies, the other having to do with my lifestyle choices. I will comment on the latter first.

 

Of course it is nobody’s business how I choose to use banking services or anything else, but from some comments there seems to be little tolerance for anyone who does things differently. People express incredulity at the fact I don’t have Internet banking. The implication seems to be that I am abnormal and there must be something wrong with me. So here is my reasoning anyway, just in case anyone cares.

 

I am not computer-illiterate. I follow technological developments and try out things that interest me. I am perfectly capable of using a smart phone or Internet banking or anything else if I so choose. To be clear, I have nothing against these two things in particular. I have looked at them and decided they don’t add value to my life at this time. If I were still in business, of course I would have them. The world has changed and I wouldn’t be able to survive without them.

 

But I am not in business. I am retired. My banking needs are minimal  in the extreme. I receive a pension payment every fortnight. I make very few payments of my own. I get emailed statements from my bank, but not within the time frame PB Tech demands. This is the first time I have encountered this kind of issue. Maybe in the future I will have to have Internet banking to do any transactions. If so, I will have it.

 

My reason for not having it right now is because I haven’t needed it. It hasn’t added any value to my life. And while I know it is very secure, having it adds another layer of complexity and point of failure to my system. It is not logical to take that risk if it doesn’t give me any value. So I haven’t.

 

Smart phone? I stay at home most of the time. A landline and PC meet all of my communications needs. If I have an appointment in town, I take my tablet along and use public wi-fi to pass the time. At home I use tablets and notebooks to look up things while watching TV and doing other stuff. I use them very much the same way others use their phones. I don’t need a smart phone.

 

Other people who have other lifestyles do need them. Most of my friends have them. I have no problem with that. Unlike some who are stomping on me here, I have no objection to the choices of those who use smart phones or Internet banking. They are fine for those who get value from them. 

 

To get back to my original post, I was surprised and outraged when PB Tech suddenly hit me with a demand I had never encountered before and that I felt was unreasonable, especially in my circumstances. It was the first time I had ever seen something like this. It came only after I had already filled in all their forms, including all the credit card information. Yes, I suppose I could have read the small print in the terms and conditions first, but how many people do that? I was just making a simple credit card purchase like I have done so many times before. 

 

People keep suggesting that PB Tech’s approach is the new normal, and every company does it. That has not been my experience to date. Every other purchase I have made on-line has just gone through without any BS. For me this experience has just added another reason to go back to shopping overseas. Somehow those companies manage to cope with this. NZ retailers keep complaining about unfair competition, but if I were still in business, I would bend over backwards to keep the customers I had and hopefully attract new ones. I have done business with some brilliant NZ companies and I know they are not all like this, but those that are really could use lessons in customer service. I know I am not the only one to complain about that.

 

Done. Time to move on. I have said what I think and so have others. People can think what they like. Thanks for contributing to what has become a rather amusing thread. Bye.

 

P.S.: After cancelling my order I placed it with Ascent (thanks @MikeB4). That was three days ago. It just now arrived at my RD address. No BS with the credit card, no added surcharges, no other crap, just incredible speedy delivery of exactly what I ordered. I think it was even a little cheaper. Now that is what I call service! What a relief to do business with a normal company.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


3027 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2386661 7-Jan-2020 13:13
5 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

To get back to my original post, I was surprised and outraged when PB Tech suddenly hit me with a demand I had never encountered before and that I felt was unreasonable, especially in my circumstances. It was the first time I had ever seen something like this.

 

 

"that I felt was unreasonable" is  I suspect is the crux of the back and forth of the last 6 pages. You felt it was unreasonable as it was not easy for you to comply with PB's request. For other, it is something that is very easily complied with, when prompted, with a simple couple of clicks of their phone.

 

Just as you use discretion on how you bank, business owners use discretion on how they run their business and how much risk they want to take on board. I'm no fan of PB Tech for a variety of reasons, but on this one I fully support them - they are simply implementing procedures to reduce their risk to card fraud; procedures which are inconsequential to the vast majority of their customers.

 

That other businesses have differing processes and appetites to managing their risk (PB Tech v Ascent) is irrelevant. I read recently that some NZ businesses are considering going cashless as cash is so rarely used and it carries is higher risk (of theft or loss) plus is more expensive to process. I have a couple of friends who only use cash, so I guess they will simply have to shop elsewhere if they want to continue cash only.


9100 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2386669 7-Jan-2020 13:36
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

PBTech would easily do 10-20x the business Ascent would do, so are far more susceptible to fraud


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Ring launches indoor-only security camera
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:26


New report findings will help schools implement the digital technologies curriculum content
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:25


N4L to upgrade & support wireless internet inside schools
Posted 23-Jan-2020 17:22


Netflix releases 21 Studio Ghibli works
Posted 22-Jan-2020 11:42


Vodafone integrates eSIM into device and wearable roadmap
Posted 17-Jan-2020 09:45


Do you need this camera app? Group investigates privacy implications
Posted 16-Jan-2020 03:30


JBL launches headphones range designed for gaming
Posted 13-Jan-2020 09:59


Withings introduces ScanWatch wearable combining ECG and sleep apnea detection
Posted 9-Jan-2020 18:34


NZ Police releases public app
Posted 8-Jan-2020 11:43


Suunto 7 combine sports and smart features on new smartwatch generation
Posted 7-Jan-2020 16:06


Intel brings innovation with technology spanning the cloud, network, edge and PC
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:54


AMD announces high performance desktop and ultrathin laptop processors
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:42


AMD unveils four new desktop and mobile GPUs including AMD Radeon RX 5600
Posted 7-Jan-2020 15:32


Consolidation in video streaming market with Spark selling Lightbox to Sky
Posted 19-Dec-2019 09:09


Intel introduces cryogenic control chip to enable quantum computers
Posted 10-Dec-2019 21:32



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.