Anyone gone to the Disputes Tribunal? - Likely need to take a 2Degrees retail store to court.

Forums › Off topic › Anyone gone to the Disputes Tribunal? - Likely need to take a 2Degrees retail store to court.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

19374 posts

Uber Geek

#2421512 15-Feb-2020 20:13

loceff13:

gradwefran: And this issue of how long should a pair of headphones last will have come up before.

I would have thought with moderate use 18 months to two years.

The referee might split it down the middle.

for $500? This is in the ultra premium range compared to what else is in the market lol.

The thing is that many of these Bluetooth headphones and earbuds are really expensive. Look at the Airpods pro pricing. But I don't think they are really made to last more than a few years, due to batteries wearing out and the batteries usually being sealed into them making repair almost impossible. Some manufacturers though want them to be replaced regularly , as see them as a consumable, as that is where they can make a lot of ongoing money. When I had some headphones that came with my iphone fail prematurely, I was told by the retailer that they aren't covered by the devices warranty, as headphones are a 'consumable', and if I had purchased an extended warranty that would have covered them. I recall someone also had the similar issue on here with a galaxy note stylus recently that failed.

MyHeritage

Shop MyHeritage and uncover your origins and find new relatives with a simple DNA test. (affiliate link).

Bung

5417 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2421607 15-Feb-2020 23:09

Earbuds can lead to increased ear wax production and the fine mesh screen on the tip of the earbud does not stop wax getting in. If one or both channels seem to just fade out the bud could be plugged up with wax. The outside of the bud can look quite normal.

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2421610 16-Feb-2020 00:44

Handle9:

It's lack of competence. @dejadeadnz would probably be looking for the popcorn if this got to a hearing.

Correct. Whatever fantasies 2Degrees may harbour, the fact remains that this was a piece of good that was offered to induce you to purchase the Samsung phone and all the usual CGA provisions apply. I've observed that 2Degrees' attitude towards legal compliance and, specifically, the CGA is utterly pathetic. Rip them a new one -- they deserve nothing less. You will win no trouble at all.

@2Degreescare - how low can your company go?

Lias

5223 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2421775 16-Feb-2020 12:09

dejadeadnz:

@2Degreescare - how low can your company go?

Just look at their peers who they are trying to compete with / emulate..

Vodafone who has a reputation for the worst customer service in the known universe
Spark/Telecom which a mere decade & a half ago had a CEO who thought it was appropriate to stand up at an industry conference and brag about how good they were at extracting higher profits from customers by lying to them.

I'd say they can still go pretty low yet lol.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

mattwnz

19374 posts

Uber Geek

#2422021 17-Feb-2020 01:02

Hopefully common sense will prevail. Based on the information here, I can't see this getting to the DT, unless there is something that we don't know about.

Bung

5417 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2422022 17-Feb-2020 02:16

Lias: Spark/Telecom which a mere decade & a half ago had a CEO who thought it was appropriate to stand up at an industry conference and brag about how good they were at extracting higher profits from customers by lying to them.

Gattung was describing the whole telco industry not just Spark. It was not about lying (misquoting?) but making sure pricing offers weren't directly comparable.

Ex Herald "Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20.

"You could argue that that's how all of us keep calling prices up and get those revenues, high-margin businesses, keep them going for a lot longer than would have been the case.

"But at some level, whether they consciously articulate or not, customers know that's what the game has been. They know we're not being straight up."

Gattung made the comments as part of a speech given to analysts in Sydney about the company's plans for the future. They were made in the context of how Telecom was changing its business model to give more power to customers, spokesman John Goulter said yesterday.

"The point she was making is that telcos traditionally have had very complex products and that this has been confusing for customers," he said.,, "

Lias

5223 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2422229 17-Feb-2020 10:00

Bung:
Lias: Spark/Telecom which a mere decade & a half ago had a CEO who thought it was appropriate to stand up at an industry conference and brag about how good they were at extracting higher profits from customers by lying to them.

Gattung was describing the whole telco industry not just Spark. It was not about lying (misquoting?) but making sure pricing offers weren't directly comparable.

Ex Herald "Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20.

"You could argue that that's how all of us keep calling prices up and get those revenues, high-margin businesses, keep them going for a lot longer than would have been the case.

"But at some level, whether they consciously articulate or not, customers know that's what the game has been. They know we're not being straight up."

Gattung made the comments as part of a speech given to analysts in Sydney about the company's plans for the future. They were made in the context of how Telecom was changing its business model to give more power to customers, spokesman John Goulter said yesterday.

"The point she was making is that telcos traditionally have had very complex products and that this has been confusing for customers," he said.,, "

Personally I equate 'not being straight up' with lying, whether that's by uttering a deliberate falsehood, allowing people the impression of a falsehood by generating confusion, or a merely a general avoidance of the full truth by omission. They are all forms of dishonesty by lying to me. YMMV.

As to her making the comments in the context of saying Telecom was trying to find ways to move away from doing that, yes she was, but equally she was admitting that it was how they had previously and arguably still were doing business. Yes those practices may have been common and widespread beyond Telecom, and she was trying to move away from, but I still think it was an extraordinary admission of malfeasance by her.

Ruphus

395 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2422237 17-Feb-2020 10:17

gradwefran: And this issue of how long should a pair of headphones last will have come up before.

I would have thought with moderate use 18 months to two years.

The referee might split it down the middle.

I use my Bose QC35 Gen1 every day and apart from cosmetic wear, I haven't had any problems with them.

Bung

5417 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2422245 17-Feb-2020 10:29

What she was describing was simply the practice of bundling products together but never quite offering the same package as the competitors. It will probably continue until all plans are full speed and unlimited data then there will be another difference like a streaming deal.

tehgerbil

995 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#2422384 17-Feb-2020 13:17

I called their help centre, advising the situation and asking to be put through to someone at "head office" who I could actually talk to about their decision rather than relying on the store manager to relay the information.

The call centre lady was extremely apologetic but basically said any and all communications have to go through the store manager.

She said If I have a problem with the store manager/head office I can email the generic tellus@2degreees.co.nz and hope for an answer.

It's not that she didn't want to help me, but as a Service desk staff member she was not able to provide any assistance with issues at stores, that feedback channel simply doesn't exist via the telephone.

I can only email that generic feedback email and hope for the best. In this day and age, that really doesn't seem right to me?

mattwnz

19374 posts

Uber Geek

#2422428 17-Feb-2020 13:53

tehgerbil:

I can only email that generic feedback email and hope for the best. In this day and age, that really doesn't seem right to me?

This is becoming more common from my experience dealing with different larger companies, where it is becoming more and more difficult to communicate with high level staff who make the decisions, and they are insulated by contact centre staff. I am having this problem myself with another company trying to get past the initial call centre level, where they are essentially following a script, and it is not their fault. All you can do is ask for it to be escalated each time to the manager or head of the company.

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
7264 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2422658 17-Feb-2020 18:01

tehgerbil:

I called their help centre, advising the situation and asking to be put through to someone at "head office" who I could actually talk to about their decision rather than relying on the store manager to relay the information.

The call centre lady was extremely apologetic but basically said any and all communications have to go through the store manager.

She said If I have a problem with the store manager/head office I can email the generic tellus@2degreees.co.nz and hope for an answer.

It's not that she didn't want to help me, but as a Service desk staff member she was not able to provide any assistance with issues at stores, that feedback channel simply doesn't exist via the telephone.

I can only email that generic feedback email and hope for the best. In this day and age, that really doesn't seem right to me?

Have you abandoned the idea of going to the DT?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

networkn

Networkn
30183 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2423168 18-Feb-2020 13:40

@tehgerbil if I were you I would call back to the original manager who declined to cover this under warranty. State you have done some investigation and feel you have a case under the CGA, and want to inform them in writing that unless the issue is resolved to your satisfaction within 5 working days, you intend to take the matter to the disputes tribunal. Ask them to give you not only their email address but also the email of the relevant head office email address.

Then send an email outlining the issue, what has been said by 2D to date that you consider this is a breach of your consumer rights.

Stay calm and respectful and see what happens. I suspect a manager of this manager will take one look at this and it will be sorted.

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2423498 18-Feb-2020 21:14

networkn:

@tehgerbil if I were you I would call back to the original manager who declined to cover this under warranty. State you have done some investigation and feel you have a case under the CGA, and want to inform them in writing that unless the issue is resolved to your satisfaction within 5 working days, you intend to take the matter to the disputes tribunal. Ask them to give you not only their email address but also the email of the relevant head office email address.

Then send an email outlining the issue, what has been said by 2D to date that you consider this is a breach of your consumer rights.

Stay calm and respectful and see what happens. I suspect a manager of this manager will take one look at this and it will be sorted.

As someone with years of experience handling major corporate escalations that go to GGM and above levels, I can tell you that if someone is in the right and have already been mucked around by a muppet who clearly has no respect for the laws of the land (ignorance of the law is no excuse -- if the person is too ignorant to understand the CGA, that's either his or her problem or 2Degrees'. It's not the OP's), the last thing the OP should endure is having to waste further time with the same individual. Also from actual experience I can tell you that the kind of people who try to ignore the laws of the land are exactly the sorts of individual that will have so little integrity that they may well attempt to stall your complaint or misrepresent what happened to his or her own colleagues. I've busted plenty of people doing that at my various workplaces.

Instead, I'd first write on 2Degrees' Facebook wall, shame them with a factual but calm post. It doesn't have to be nice because law breakers don't deserve niceties. Then download a PDF copy of the Disputes Tribunal filing form and start filling in the part where you need to describe what your issue is and clearly describe how the store manager essentially purported to contract out of or ignore your CGA rights and e-mail it to the general address that's been discussed. At the beginning of the e-mail make clear that you're writing the e-mail to their legal compliance manager or head of complaints -- clearly articulate that you're prepared to pursue your rights to the full extent but that you'd prefer an amicable solution. I guarantee you that will get you noticed way quicker and by the right people.

Finally, do not conflate being reasonable and factual with being "nice". What the OP is asking for is reasonable -- you don't need to dress it up to make it palatable to the ignorant.

networkn

Networkn
30183 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2424114 19-Feb-2020 15:48

I didn't say be nice, I said stay calm. He isn't wasting time with the individual, he is asking for an escalation path, so that someone who isn't being obstructive gets involved. It's a 2-minute call and a 3-minute email. Having been to the DT twice, it's very time consuming, and I'd avoid it if I could, especially since I believe there are people in the 2D org who will sort this. Even if 2D dispute this, and it's not likely they would, if they have a bad corporate culture related to Consumer Rights, a loss at the DT won't change it. Big fines handed out by governing bodies will do this.

By going the route I suggested, will at least initially save him a $40 filing fee which isn't refundable, and as I mentioned, I think a manager above the person he has been dealing with, will soon square this away. It also will likely happen much quicker than a DT hearing.

Path of least resistance and all that.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6