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bmt

bmt
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  #2456849 8-Apr-2020 09:04
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KrazyKid:

 

Yes they individually contribute a little bit only in each place, there is a quality in numbers all of its own as the saying goes.

 

some figures I found puts the average spend of backpackers at $3,700 and the average stay at 31 days.
So a bit over $100 a day spend each.

 

But the number of backpackers per year was quoted at 159,000. That's $600 million a year.
so while it would be nice to get more big spending tourists, backpackers are good.

 

I assume camper vans are a subset of all backpackers, but are basically in the same spend bracket (vans instead of hostels)

 

 

I think it is worth having a discussion about these numbers and whether it is a market we should be chasing. $600m a year in the scheme of things is not a huge amount. If you assumed a very basic 15% GST going to the government, that's less than $18 per person per day of tax going to the government. Generally nothing goes to the ratepayer, who usually has to pay for the facilities a backpacker may use as well as upkeep (i.e public toilets). 

 

Looking at the Premium section of that website:

 

Tourism New Zealand considers that the biggest growth opportunities exist with the top 10 per cent of the world's wealthy - the Very and Ultra High Net-Worth Individuals (VHNWI and UHNWI) with liquid assets of US$30m plus. Travellers in this segment can spend $50k per visit, with some capable of spending $100k or more. (*source: 2013 World Wealth Report)

 

1 person spending $3,700 over 31 days vs 1 person spending up to $100,000 over a shorter period. Obviously we don't want to end up as some inaccessible ultra-wealthy only tourist destination but at the same time we are already creaking with the numbers of low-value backpackers.


bmt

bmt
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  #2456892 8-Apr-2020 09:08
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Also re backpacker van - rego would at a guess be <$200 a year, which is a one-off annual payment so pretty negligible. If a tourist is buying their van off another tourist and then on-selling to a tourist again when they leave, that money is not entering the economy - it is rotating around but ultimately leaves when the seller takes the money with them.

 

In the short term we will obviously be focusing on domestic tourism, but long term will definitely need international visitors back. If we are only transferring our own money to other Kiwis the economy won't be growing - we want EXTRA money from outside the country coming and being added to the economy. My point is - do we want this to be in the form of lots of low value people putting pressure on existing infrastructure, or should be get more bang for buck and target other segments.

 

Its a bit like should the wood companies simply chop down trees and send overseas for processing, or should Fonterra only collect milk and ship away the powder, vs processing that wood and milk into more value-add products.


 
 
 
 


SaltyNZ
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  #2456897 8-Apr-2020 09:17
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bmt:

 

Also re backpacker van - rego would at a guess be <$200 a year, which is a one-off annual payment so pretty negligible. If a tourist is buying their van off another tourist and then on-selling to a tourist again when they leave, that money is not entering the economy - it is rotating around but ultimately leaves when the seller takes the money with them.

 

In the short term we will obviously be focusing on domestic tourism, but long term will definitely need international visitors back. If we are only transferring our own money to other Kiwis the economy won't be growing - we want EXTRA money from outside the country coming and being added to the economy. My point is - do we want this to be in the form of lots of low value people putting pressure on existing infrastructure, or should be get more bang for buck and target other segments.

 

Its a bit like should the wood companies simply chop down trees and send overseas for processing, or should Fonterra only collect milk and ship away the powder, vs processing that wood and milk into more value-add products.

 

 

 

 

Personally I think we should pump up some high tech sectors, where there are margins to be made. NZ is arguably a leader in small satellite launch capability now with RocketLab (and man I'm annoyed the government didn't back them at the beginning when they asked for it!); we have a lot of geothermal generation experience; lots of room for high tech improvements in agriculture.

 

So many good ideas have gone off-shore because there was no support to bring them to market. We need to start getting behind these things instead of just leaning on Fonterra to milk more cows. If for no other reason than bulk international cargo to and from the farthest point from anywhere is going to be a lot more expensive in the next little while as airlines go out of business left right and centre.





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tdgeek
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  #2456909 8-Apr-2020 09:47
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SaltyNZ:

 

bmt:

 

In the short term we will obviously be focusing on domestic tourism, but long term will definitely need international visitors back. If we are only transferring our own money to other Kiwis the economy won't be growing - we want EXTRA money from outside the country coming and being added to the economy. My point is - do we want this to be in the form of lots of low value people putting pressure on existing infrastructure, or should be get more bang for buck and target other segments.

 

Its a bit like should the wood companies simply chop down trees and send overseas for processing, or should Fonterra only collect milk and ship away the powder, vs processing that wood and milk into more value-add products.

 

 

 

 

Personally I think we should pump up some high tech sectors, where there are margins to be made. NZ is arguably a leader in small satellite launch capability now with RocketLab (and man I'm annoyed the government didn't back them at the beginning when they asked for it!); we have a lot of geothermal generation experience; lots of room for high tech improvements in agriculture.

 

So many good ideas have gone off-shore because there was no support to bring them to market. We need to start getting behind these things instead of just leaning on Fonterra to milk more cows. If for no other reason than bulk international cargo to and from the farthest point from anywhere is going to be a lot more expensive in the next little while as airlines go out of business left right and centre.

 

 

Agree. While its obviously cheaper to send wood away to get processed (as one example) we do need to boost employment here, reduce imports, and Kiwis need to Buy Kiwi Made, and accept a bit more cost. We can't though, enourage that by tariffs.


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  #2456925 8-Apr-2020 10:23
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bmt:

Also re backpacker van - rego would at a guess be <$200 a year, which is a one-off annual payment so pretty negligible. If a tourist is buying their van off another tourist and then on-selling to a tourist again when they leave, that money is not entering the economy - it is rotating around but ultimately leaves when the seller takes the money with them.




The money enters the economy when the first tourist buys the van. A little leaves the economy when the last tourist sells it to a local (or wrecker).

Backpackers also buy fuel for their vans, and food, and therefore pay taxes. Not to mention WoF and tyres and repairs. And, if we're talking about ordinary vans as opposed to campervans, most also pay for accommodation at backpackers, campgrounds, or Airbnb. Yes, some freedom camp, but I don't believe they're the majority. If you stay at a campground, you'll also see many campervans. And campgrounds pay tax and rates.

Geektastic

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  #2456941 8-Apr-2020 10:36
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I think that border restriction will make the “stack them high and sell them cheap “ model less practical than it has been in the past, not just for tourism but for many things.

Rebasing to a world where quality has more attraction than price might be a benefit that comes out of this.





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  #2456965 8-Apr-2020 11:12
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Press release from New Zealand government:

 

 

The Government, industry and business are working together to develop a plan for how tourism will operate in a post-COVID-19 world, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis announced today.

 

“A post-COVID tourism industry will play an important role in New Zealand’s economic recovery, but it will be different to the one that we are accustomed to. There will be new challenges, new opportunities and a new way of working,” Kelvin Davis said. 

 

“I have tasked Tourism New Zealand with leading a piece of work alongside MBIE and the Department of Conservation, and with industry stakeholders, to reimagine the way we govern Tourism, how we market domestically and internationally, who we market to, and how we manage visitors when they arrive on our shores.

 

“We have an opportunity to rethink the entire way we approach tourism to ensure that it will make New Zealand a more sustainable place, enrich the lives of all our people and deliver a sector which is financially self-sustaining in the longer term.

 

“Given international travel is likely to be heavily restricted for some time, and features of our tourism industry such as cruise ships are currently banned, this will need to be a phased approach, looking at how we can focus on and promote domestic tourism in the short term and how we can target an international offering. 

 

“I expect to receive advice on this work in the next couple of weeks,” Kelvin Davis said.

 

Tourism New Zealand Chief Executive Stephen England-Hall said this is an opportunity to listen to communities and design the future of tourism in New Zealand so that it benefits our people and our home.

 

“We’ll be working with key partners to ask questions, listen, and create something we can all be proud of, something that genuinely gives back more than it takes to Aotearoa and plays a key role in our economic success,” Stephen England-Hall said.

 

As part of planning for a restart, Kelvin Davis said that he and Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage have agreed to review the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) investment plan.

 

“This plan was prepared at a different time, for a different future. We are now looking at what aspects of the plan remain fit for purpose, and how the IVL can be best used to help rebuild the tourism industry as part of a restart package,” Kelvin Davis said.

 

“This has been an immensely challenging situation for our tourism industry.

 

“I want to thank everyone in the sector who has offered their advice, expertise and insights at this time.  I will be calling on you again when we move into the restart phase,” Kelvin Davis said.

 





 

 

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bmt

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  #2457323 8-Apr-2020 13:52
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/back-your-backyard/120899811/coronavirus-the-future-of-the-kiwi-holiday

 

Warning: Brooke Sabin "article"..

 

Makes some of the good points though:

 

But when that happens, the tourism sector needs to be urgently recalibrated for a Kiwi market. Hobbiton-like experiences, designed for overseas visitors, just won't work. The Government has announced a task force to look into the issue, but I can tell them now - one of the biggest factors is price.

 

..

 

I went heli-hiking on the West Coast last year at Franz Josef glacier, it's the only way to get up to the glacier.

 

When I got off the helicopter to start walking around the ice, I was asked where I lived. I replied New Zealand, to which the guide laughed and said he was more likely to see a kiwi (the bird) than a Kiwi (the tourist) come up the mountain. At $485 per person, the price is no doubt a significant factor. 

 

Ultimately, a change in the value proposition is needed. No longer can luxury lodges charge $12,000 a night; no longer can a zip lining tour in Rotorua charge $699 for a family. If you want to attract Kiwi travellers, you need to offer value. 

 


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  #2457339 8-Apr-2020 14:06
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Oooooh I have one to add, fresh off the press conference: we will all know for sure that 5G doesn't cause COVID-19!





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  #2457340 8-Apr-2020 14:08
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SaltyNZ:

 

Oooooh I have one to add, fresh off the press conference: we will all know for sure that 5G doesn't cause COVID-19!

 

 

I had to pause it and compose myself after that!


tdgeek
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  #2457346 8-Apr-2020 14:14
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SaltyNZ:

 

Oooooh I have one to add, fresh off the press conference: we will all know for sure that 5G doesn't cause COVID-19!

 

 

That's just great. I just sold my 24 cubic metres of toilet paper for a huge margin and bought tinfoil...bugger!


elpenguino
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  #2457351 8-Apr-2020 14:19
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SaltyNZ:

 

Oooooh I have one to add, fresh off the press conference: we will all know for sure that 5G doesn't cause COVID-19!

 

 

So they say, anyway.


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  #2457548 8-Apr-2020 16:28
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I went heli-hiking on the West Coast last year at Franz Josef glacier, it's the only way to get up to the glacier.




Well, no, he could have walked. Admittedly it's a long walk to get onto the Franz Josef glacier, but it was done long before helicopters were invented, and continues to be done.

(Yes, I know there's a good fraction of NZ's population who can't do that walk; I am nowadays one of them. But my dispute is with the word "only").

SaltyNZ
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  #2457551 8-Apr-2020 16:33
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frankv:
I went heli-hiking on the West Coast last year at Franz Josef glacier, it's the only way to get up to the glacier.


Well, no, he could have walked. Admittedly it's a long walk to get onto the Franz Josef glacier, but it was done long before helicopters were invented, and continues to be done.

(Yes, I know there's a good fraction of NZ's population who can't do that walk; I am nowadays one of them. But my dispute is with the word "only").

 

 

 

And the glacier was a lot bigger before helicopters were invented too!





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James Bond
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  #2458091 9-Apr-2020 11:48
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bmt:

 

Also re backpacker van - rego would at a guess be <$200 a year, which is a one-off annual payment so pretty negligible. If a tourist is buying their van off another tourist and then on-selling to a tourist again when they leave, that money is not entering the economy - it is rotating around but ultimately leaves when the seller takes the money with them.

 

In the short term we will obviously be focusing on domestic tourism, but long term will definitely need international visitors back. If we are only transferring our own money to other Kiwis the economy won't be growing - we want EXTRA money from outside the country coming and being added to the economy. My point is - do we want this to be in the form of lots of low value people putting pressure on existing infrastructure, or should be get more bang for buck and target other segments.

 

Its a bit like should the wood companies simply chop down trees and send overseas for processing, or should Fonterra only collect milk and ship away the powder, vs processing that wood and milk into more value-add products.

 

 

I heard Shane Jones on NewstalkZB saying that they're reviewing this currently to help the local Forestry sector. 






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