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  #2483033 13-May-2020 19:13
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BlinkyBill:

 

This whole thing is shocking. I’m just so happy that Facebook, Instagram, Google, Apple, Wechat, Adobe, website cookies, Flybuys, Airpoints etc etc etc don’t track my location.

 

 

Shocking that there are so many clueless managers? No not really.


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  #2483039 13-May-2020 19:18
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ANglEAUT:

 

You & I say no, but here are some counter arguments

 

* Now, in after COVID-19 (AC) times, who wants to touch pen & paper to sign in? I'd rather handle my own device than something public like that
* There are people who just don't care. They don't even care enough to listen to you explain the options so that they can make an informed ddecision.
* No waiting in line of 20-100 people, all waiting to sign in at 07:59
* Disable GPS tracking for the app & simply use it to manually sign in using your own device. It's handy to be able to sign out of the location when you are already home & realise you accidentally forgot to sign out.
* How many other apps have you already voluntarily installed that do exactly the same as this app? & More are coming. Your favourite bar / restaurant / night club / movie theatre will need something similar. The likes of hotels & airlines will integrate this into their loyaly card / app soon enough.

 

 

There are a lot of counter arguements. That isn't particularly relevant with managing the process.

 

A very simple way to have avoided this scenario would be to have sent an email saying why they have to know when you are at work, outline the process if you don't use a personal mobile device, offer using a personal mobile device as a way to make the employees day easier, and then offer to answer any questions or concerns.

 

It's just basic management.

 

 


 
 
 
 




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  #2483067 13-May-2020 20:00
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Handle9:

ANglEAUT:


You & I say no, but here are some counter arguments


* Now, in after COVID-19 (AC) times, who wants to touch pen & paper to sign in? I'd rather handle my own device than something public like that
* There are people who just don't care. They don't even care enough to listen to you explain the options so that they can make an informed ddecision.
* No waiting in line of 20-100 people, all waiting to sign in at 07:59
* Disable GPS tracking for the app & simply use it to manually sign in using your own device. It's handy to be able to sign out of the location when you are already home & realise you accidentally forgot to sign out.
* How many other apps have you already voluntarily installed that do exactly the same as this app? & More are coming. Your favourite bar / restaurant / night club / movie theatre will need something similar. The likes of hotels & airlines will integrate this into their loyaly card / app soon enough.



There are a lot of counter arguements. That isn't particularly relevant with managing the process.


A very simple way to have avoided this scenario would be to have sent an email saying why they have to know when you are at work, outline the process if you don't use a personal mobile device, offer using a personal mobile device as a way to make the employees day easier, and then offer to answer any questions or concerns.


It's just basic management.


 



Yes this and a statement of what they are going to use the data for.






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  #2483071 13-May-2020 20:03
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andrewNZ:
BlinkyBill:

This whole thing is shocking. I’m just so happy that Facebook, Instagram, Google, Apple, Wechat, Adobe, website cookies, Flybuys, Airpoints etc etc etc don’t track my location.

To me the tracking is the lesser issue. It's still bad because it wasn't a choice.
The worst part (for me) is a company saying "Install this on your personal device now kthnx" with no other explanation, consultation or information.

From this point on, I'd be requiring everything in writing or I would not comply. But then I am in a position to be able to do that.


It wasn't even my company that sent the initial email. It was the weird spammy email in the first post. We still haven't received any staff wide communication in writing from the company.




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  #2483075 13-May-2020 20:07
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Install on a burner phone.

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  #2483136 13-May-2020 20:47
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Knowing how some companies have used similar data in the past as fishing expeditions for potential disciplinary action, at the very least I would be asking for a written guarantee from your company as to what the information will and won't be used for and how long it will be kept for.

One company I worked for introduced an MDM platform for use on personal phones. They were made to sign a side agreement to the collective agreement which stated exactly how the whole thing would be managed.

As pointed out there are benefits to the employee but you need to protect yourself from any malevolent action.

Otherwise I'd be quite happy to stand in line on the bosses time waiting to sign in.




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  #2483333 14-May-2020 07:02
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The Privacy Commissioner, Jon Edwards, said on the radio on Tuesday that use of data collected for contact tracing purposes can not be used for any other purpose. He mentioned the legislation but I can’t recall which it is. He specifically said that that applied to exisiting solutions, and new ones developed for Covid-19. Including manual sign-in sheets.

 

He also made a very good point, which floored the interviewer, that the Singapore, and the Australian apps don’t work and need more refinement. Sir Brian Roche is heading up the effort for the NZ app, and mentioned that it will come out and only be used to register, won’t actually record contacts (I.e. via beacons, barcodes, QR code’s etc) until later.

 

Both of Edwards and Roche noted that the key aspect for contact tracing will be trained followers-up in contact centres. Excess data in to the centres will clog up the follow-up process, which is an issue with the Singapore app.

 

Edwards also noted that the Apple/Google solution, coming to your phones soon, won’t be ready for a few more weeks.





BlinkyBill


 
 
 
 


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  #2483673 14-May-2020 12:55
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Loismustdye:

 

in regards to your second to last statement, I’ve got an iPhone that When Covid hit work (I’m a health worker for the local dhb) asked us to be able to remote access our email, so I added the work email via the email app on my iPhone (and my iPad). 
I’m assuming that IT at work wouldn’t be able to wipe my devices if they wanted to, but also by using the iOS email app there’s no data, positional tracking etc. stupid question I know but some of the above comments have me wondering.

 

 

I would be surprised this doesn't violate some policy somewhere. At our work it is simple no company data on a device the company doesn't control. For phones this means it is in our MDM and can be traced, locked out or wiped remotely if needed. Obviously we will not do that on your personal phone. So if you need email on your phone IT will provision you one on the company plan etc.


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  #2483752 14-May-2020 13:24
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Loismustdye:

 

 

 

 

 

in regards to your second to last statement, I’ve got an iPhone that When Covid hit work (I’m a health worker for the local dhb) asked us to be able to remote access our email, so I added the work email via the email app on my iPhone (and my iPad). 
I’m assuming that IT at work wouldn’t be able to wipe my devices if they wanted to, but also by using the iOS email app there’s no data, positional tracking etc. stupid question I know but some of the above comments have me wondering.

 

 

depends on the mail client you use, but most will remotely wipe the phone if the admin tells it to in exchange / 0365, so if you added an exchange / 0365 account to your iphone it could be remotely wiped. As to track etc, that would require another app installed, but they could get the ip address of the phone that connecting and that might tell them where you are.


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  #2484361 15-May-2020 12:23
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"The thing is I don't really have an issue with installing it just the way that it has been implemented is just so bad it is almost like a manual for how not to do it.
How can people and culture be so clueless?"

 

That should ring warning bells right there , their attitude around this.

 

 

 

Yes , other apps collect data .
Shopping malls track you as you walk from one shop to another, via your phone.

 

Your ph enables telco's to track you even if GPS is off, to a limited extent : what celltower you are connected to .

 

At some stage we need to draw a line in the sand & say no.
Plenty of examples in NZ of personal & private data being misused , unofficially by staffers , despite what the rules around this data were .
When people have access to personal data, chances are data will be misused .

 

After Covid , will this system be shut down and ALL data destroyed . I'd bet not.
It may just become permanent , if its just accepted without question
I'd bet they will be using this data to track staff who ring in sick & unable to make it in. They wont be able to resist :-)

 

Surely they could use a less intrusive system ? Logging staff via phones wifi as staff walk in the building .

 

 




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  #2484392 15-May-2020 12:40
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I was finally able to get people and culture to issue a school wide statement that the data will only be accessed by H&S, IT and Ministry of health, it can only be used for covid 19 contact tracing, and the data will be destroyed after two months (the initial statement was the data would be kept indefinitely).  After this statement i installed the app on my phone.

 

I feel I have burnt a lot of capital with the head of People and Culture (and I have to deal with them quite frequently in my role), but I also felt that no one else was going to bother to do it.   





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#2484440 15-May-2020 13:35
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blackjack17:

 

I was finally able to get people and culture to issue a school wide statement that the data will only be accessed by H&S, IT and Ministry of health, it can only be used for covid 19 contact tracing, and the data will be destroyed after two months (the initial statement was the data would be kept indefinitely).  After this statement i installed the app on my phone.

 

I feel I have burnt a lot of capital with the head of People and Culture (and I have to deal with them quite frequently in my role), but I also felt that no one else was going to bother to do it.   

 

 

😉 For Millenials: People and Culture = HR - Human Resources

 

     For Gen-Xers & Boomers:  People and Culture = Personnel Dept.





"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." -  Stephen Hawking




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  #2484441 15-May-2020 13:36
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floydbloke:

 

blackjack17:

 

I was finally able to get people and culture to issue a school wide statement that the data will only be accessed by H&S, IT and Ministry of health, it can only be used for covid 19 contact tracing, and the data will be destroyed after two months (the initial statement was the data would be kept indefinitely).  After this statement i installed the app on my phone.

 

I feel I have burnt a lot of capital with the head of People and Culture (and I have to deal with them quite frequently in my role), but I also felt that no one else was going to bother to do it.   

 

 

😉 For Millenials: People and Culture = HR - Human Resources

 

     For Gen-Xers & Boomers:  People and Culture = Personnel Dept.

 

 

 

 

:) HR in my head





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  #2484442 15-May-2020 13:42
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I think you'll be surprised how fast it's all forgiven and forgotten provided you continue to do your job well.

I have had to do far worse to an employer, and although the initial atmosphere was a little frosty (they were quietly furious), it was all forgotten pretty quickly.




Location: Dunedin

 


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  #2484457 15-May-2020 14:16
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andrewNZ: I think you'll be surprised how fast it's all forgiven and forgotten provided you continue to do your job well.

I have had to do far worse to an employer, and although the initial atmosphere was a little frosty (they were quietly furious), it was all forgotten pretty quickly.

 

It depends on the people at management level in the HR / P&C department.

 

Some are prepared to admit they got things wrong and forgive & forget - perhaps after a while. Others have l-o-n-g memories and will never let go of a (perceived or actual) slight.

 

You must have had the good fortune to enjoy one of the first category.
Me, not so much :(


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