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gzt

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  #2523235 15-Jul-2020 07:46
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frankv:
Rikkitic: I was also struck by the circumlocutory manner by which self-inflicted deaths were described.
I think NZ got stuck in a Victorian-Edwardian time warp. Whilst the rest of the world moved on, Kiwis continued to pretend that social problems (e.g. suicide, teen pregnancy, STDs, family violence, alcohol abuse) didn't exist, and certainly didn't talk about them.

That is not the purpose of the law on this topic. The law referred to is relatively recent starting in 1988. It has been updated several times since then including 2006.

The purpose of the law is reduction of clustering which can occur after media and social reporting. Australia has voluntary media association guidelines for the same purpose. Imo the evidence is pretty well established around clustering and this does effectively reduce the incidence in those special cases.

In practice this is only one prevention strategy. There needs to be more work moving towards a whole-healthy-system type of approach imo.

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  #2523237 15-Jul-2020 08:10
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Also remember that NZ has a distressingly high rate of suicide, particularly in younger people (late teens to early twenties).
It's an area where we are unfortunately 'world leading' :(

 

Official sensitivities are understandable under the circumstances

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2523364 15-Jul-2020 10:22
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Rikkitic:When I first came here I was also struck by the circumlocutory manner by which self-inflicted deaths were described

 

Haven't come across that word before but I love it.

 

his circumlocutory language: periphrastic, circuitous, indirect, roundabout; tautological, repetitive, repetitious, diffuse, discursive, long-winded, prolix, verbose, wordy, rambling, wandering, tortuous; rare pleonastic, circumlocutionary, ambagious.

 

Being not a good orator, unlike my father, I must admit I have been accused of being circumlocutory (long-winded, rambling, wandering, tortuous) occasionally. 😀





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  #2523368 15-Jul-2020 10:26
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xpd:

 

Wait till they use "person fatally injured released from hospital" or "Fatally injured person died today"

 

I have actually seen that in patient notes by ED Doctors. "Patient was fatally injured and died"





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pdh

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  #2523500 15-Jul-2020 13:32
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This seems a fine opportunity for some pedantry...
or just the fine differences of words' meanings.

 

Let's look at 
  "Fatally injured person died":
as opposed to 
  "Fatally injured person still on ventilator until we turn that off."

 

The injury is unsurvivable - but the person is not yet legally dead.
  
Or, we can have
  "Person injured and died of shock / infection / blood loss."

 

Being an injury that was, in some cases, survivable.
Which I would argue was not an ipso facto "fatal injury".
As the death might be days later - or only hours, or minutes.

 

So, "Fatally injured... died" tells me two things, not one thing twice.

 

Or it may just be a terminally sloppy journo...
   


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2523502 15-Jul-2020 13:35
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Your comment about journos mortally wounds me.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2523507 15-Jul-2020 13:58
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Well, I trust it will be days... not hours or minutes !


 
 
 
 




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  #2523562 15-Jul-2020 15:33
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PolicyGuy:

 

Also remember that NZ has a distressingly high rate of suicide, particularly in younger people (late teens to early twenties).
It's an area where we are unfortunately 'world leading' :(

 

Official sensitivities are understandable under the circumstances

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doubly intriguing given how attractive NZ is to immigrants from all over the world.

 

 

 

By which I mean it is a very attractive place to lots who would love to move here, from all walks of life, yet many born here find it too hard to remain. I wonder what the explanation is behind that dichotomy.






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  #2523625 15-Jul-2020 17:38
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I'm going to bet it's linked fairly closely to the relatively poor state of our mental health sector, and the Kiwi "She'll be right", "stick a bit of tape over it" and "harden up princess" type built in attitudes. Double-edged sword.

 

Attitudes are changing. Once upon a time I couldn't even comprehend threads on a forum being present that discussed mental health for people during Covid19..

 

We have a long way to go though.




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  #2523840 15-Jul-2020 21:35
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networkn:

 

I'm going to bet it's linked fairly closely to the relatively poor state of our mental health sector, and the Kiwi "She'll be right", "stick a bit of tape over it" and "harden up princess" type built in attitudes. Double-edged sword.

 

Attitudes are changing. Once upon a time I couldn't even comprehend threads on a forum being present that discussed mental health for people during Covid19..

 

We have a long way to go though.

 

 

 

 

I can tell you I have heard mental health mentioned about 500% more since moving to NZ than ever I did before! Mention it when I was growing up and it was immediately redolent of straitjackets and padded cells!






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  #2523860 16-Jul-2020 00:48
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gzt:
Geektastic: So if I call it "sudden death" then print a list of suicide prevention helplines etc underneath, you believe that won't give the game away?

You have not provided one example of this to show it occurs.

 

 

 

@gzt Now when a few examples has been provided above, could you answer the question?


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  #2523870 16-Jul-2020 05:31
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Geektastic: Is “died suddenly” in a newspaper report supposed to be a euphemism for suicide that can’t be mentioned or is it supposed to suggest an unexpected heart attack or similar?

I’m confused.

 

why do you think euphemisms like this are limited to NZ? When I lived in London, and was a daily user of the Tube, it was well known that “the train has been delayed due to an incident on the line” meant someone jumped. I believe a consistent 50-60 people a year die by suicide on the Tube.





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  #2524009 16-Jul-2020 11:15
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BlinkyBill:

 

Geektastic: Is “died suddenly” in a newspaper report supposed to be a euphemism for suicide that can’t be mentioned or is it supposed to suggest an unexpected heart attack or similar?

I’m confused.

 

why do you think euphemisms like this are limited to NZ? When I lived in London, and was a daily user of the Tube, it was well known that “the train has been delayed due to an incident on the line” meant someone jumped. I believe a consistent 50-60 people a year die by suicide on the Tube.

 

 

 

 

I don't but I do believe that there is no actual legal mandate not to mention suicide in Britain (or any other country of which I am aware - which obviously is not all of them) whereas there sort of is here.

 

 

 

I think refusing to mention it is like brushing it under the carpet. I found online some government report into the matter and even that contained no actual evidence that mentioning it had any deleterious effect. It just said "may have" which is no more concrete than "may not have". Hiding it behind confusing euphemisms is not addressing the issue or raising awareness of it as a problem.






gzt

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  #2524439 16-Jul-2020 22:27
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zespri:
Geektastic: So if I call it "sudden death" then print a list of suicide prevention helplines etc underneath, you believe that won't give the game away?
@gzt Now when a few examples has been provided above, could you answer the question?

I did ask for some particular examples. Thanks to all the posters who provided those. This particular question above was not addressed to me. It was addressed to gbwelly.

gzt

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  #2524445 16-Jul-2020 22:47
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Geektastic: I don't but I do believe that there is no actual legal mandate not to mention suicide in Britain (or any other country of which I am aware - which obviously is not all of them) whereas there sort of is here.,

There is no legal requirement in NZ not to mention.

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