New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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#2611679 27-Nov-2020 12:14

frankv:

And battery storage of some adequate kWh number.

But what effect will that have on housing prices and build rates?

If we move away from the notion that we absolutely must have homes over 200 square meters or life is not worth living and look to build homes less than 120 square meters the cost impact on build costs would be negated.

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DjShadow

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#2611738 27-Nov-2020 12:38

Battery storage is a must if you are considering Solar for the home. The solar is at its most effective when people are generally at work so if you can store it then you will get the most benefit of it in the mornings and nights when people are home.

neb

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#2611743 27-Nov-2020 12:45

Zeon:
So what's this going to achieve?

It may unlock additional powers/abilities for the government, which is the usual point of declaring an emergency anything, to enable "break-glass" exceptions to standard procedures. Apart from that I can't see what they're going to do with the declaration.

tripper1000

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#2611749 27-Nov-2020 12:58

frankv: ....Oil (and coal) is decreasing in importance.Think about the transport sector, where advances in batteries (Musk's million mile battery, graphite and other technologies to increase energy density) will make EVs preferable not because they are greener but because they are cheaper. Likewise electric aircraft......

Unfortunately oil is critical to human survival. People only think about the consequences of no oil in terms of transport, but about 30% is used for other things such as plastics and fertiliser. The human population exceed what the earth can naturally support in approx 1942. Thanks to synthetic fertilisers (much of it derived from oil) farm productivity has dramatically risen in the 20th century to support the population growth. When oil runs out (not if it runs out) humans will starve - barring some yet-to-be conceived and invented solutions. Starvation and disease is natures solution to over population of animals, and also humans it seems. Climate change (that is 100 to 1,000 years away) is likely going to be the last thing to kill us.

rugrat

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#2611751 27-Nov-2020 13:00

https://www.fastcompany.com/90559678/these-diamonds-are-made-of-co2-sucked-from-the-air

Diamond making time. Though it does say direct carbon capture is expensive currently. Maybe as the mines run out it will make the diamonds worth more.

I don’t understand carbon trading scheme, as it just seems to me that if someone uses less, someone else can use more elsewhere.

‘Making a statement without action does nothing, but I don’t see any government limiting unnecessary overseas travel for pleasure, or doing stuff that hurts the economy to much. Guess the statement is just acknowledging the situation.

Some things may have been possible before COVID, but don’t see subsidies etc for EV’s being likely now as national debt has soared.

I think the bigger solutions will come through technology, and finding smarter ways of doing things, like the carbon capture, cheaper high density battery storage.

An example of a smarter way, though has large local environmental impacts is Pumped hydro storage

Not sure if we’re moving fast enough though.

Dingbatt

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#2611753 27-Nov-2020 13:11

I’d like to add a No11 to Mike’s list.

11. Plant lots of magical money trees. Thereby being able to pay for everything and absorbing CO2 (assuming that species absorbs the aforementioned).

Forcing people to pay more is always a good solution. Especially for those who can least afford it. Most of the suggestions will increase cost or reduce income.

Drastic measures at the moment would be akin to throwing a person who is drowning, a sun umbrella. At least they won’t get sunburnt as their lungs fill with water.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

gzt

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#2611754 27-Nov-2020 13:15

rugrat:Not sure if we’re moving fast enough though.

Agree. Look at what was achieved with Covid vaccine effort. It went from
- not possible ever forget it
- maybe in two to three years
- nine months later now several good candidates and in deployment phase

MikeB4

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#2611764 27-Nov-2020 13:26

Dingbatt:

I’d like to add a No11 to Mike’s list.

11. Plant lots of magical money trees. Thereby being able to pay for everything and absorbing CO2 (assuming that species absorbs the aforementioned).

Forcing people to pay more is always a good solution. Especially for those who can least afford it. Most of the suggestions will increase cost or reduce income.

Drastic measures at the moment would be akin to throwing a person who is drowning, a sun umbrella. At least they won’t get sunburnt as their lungs fill with water.

We either do it or we selfishly hand future generations an absolute disaster. That's our choice.

Dingbatt

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#2611771 27-Nov-2020 13:36

MikeB4:

We either do it or we selfishly hand future generations an absolute disaster. That's our choice.

Opinion as fact.

We could build nuclear power stations.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#2611772 27-Nov-2020 13:37

Dingbatt:

Opinion as fact.

We could build nuclear power stations.

Do you believe that climate change is opinion?

Dingbatt

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#2611781 27-Nov-2020 13:50

MikeB4:

Dingbatt:

Opinion as fact.

We could build nuclear power stations.

Do you believe that climate change is opinion?

No.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

KrazyKid

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#2611782 27-Nov-2020 13:54

I'll agree with all those who say the last few years have been lots of talk and little action.
This could easily be another "all talk" moment.

It seems NZ wants to turn up at a summit for countries high ambition in climate changes in December.
But since we have done almost nothing concrete in the last 10 years about fixing our country we may get excluded.

Notice we are 2nd top of this list of industrialized countries with our 57% increase in C02 emissions since 1990.

And yes other countries have easy wins in part, but we are doing poorly.

Can't say we are clean and green at the moment.

MikeB4's list on transport is a good and easy start.

wellygary

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#2611785 27-Nov-2020 13:57

MikeB4:

10. Require all forestry development and harvesting to utilise selective logging and ban clear felling.

Err, why.... NZ has pretty much no native logging industry,

The tress that are being clear felled were planted to be harvested at maturity..

If you are talking about this as a way to prevent runoff and slash washouts then just stop hill planting, ...

but the clearfell rotational forestry of the predominantly flat central north Island is pretty much the only thing that will keep NZ's carbon neutral hopes alive... (along with thousands of Jobs)

frankv

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#2611787 27-Nov-2020 14:02

tripper1000:

frankv: ....Oil (and coal) is decreasing in importance.Think about the transport sector, where advances in batteries (Musk's million mile battery, graphite and other technologies to increase energy density) will make EVs preferable not because they are greener but because they are cheaper. Likewise electric aircraft......

Unfortunately oil is critical to human survival. People only think about the consequences of no oil in terms of transport, but about 30% is used for other things such as plastics and fertiliser. The human population exceed what the earth can naturally support in approx 1942. Thanks to synthetic fertilisers (much of it derived from oil) farm productivity has dramatically risen in the 20th century to support the population growth. When oil runs out (not if it runs out) humans will starve - barring some yet-to-be conceived and invented solutions. Starvation and disease is natures solution to over population of animals, and also humans it seems. Climate change (that is 100 to 1,000 years away) is likely going to be the last thing to kill us.

Doom and gloom. Energy is critical to human survival, not oil. If we have enough energy, I'm sure we can synthesise pretty much any chemical, including hydrocarbons, that we need. Oil is convenient, and so far, cheaper than other sources.

But climate change is already killing people. In droves. The spread of the Sahara southward is displacing & starving millions. For them, climate change has been going on for centuries. And, as climate change turns currently fertile and productive land into arid wasteland, it's going to be increasingly difficult to feed the masses.

MikeB4

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#2611804 27-Nov-2020 14:07

wellygary:

]

Err, why.... NZ has pretty much no native logging industry,

The tress that are being clear felled were planted to be harvested at maturity..

If you are talking about this as a way to prevent runoff and slash washouts then just stop hill planting, ...

but the clearfell rotational forestry of the predominantly flat central north Island is pretty much the only thing that will keep NZ's carbon neutral hopes alive... (along with thousands of Jobs)

First up harvesting of native timber should outright banned. However the planting of non native forest is a good investment for the future. It is a renewable resource and good for the environment. Clear felling of forest is and bad way to make use of that investment. Norway for example is a large provider of timber and their area os forest is increasing due to selective logging. Selective logging makes each forest more sustainable. It protects the land from erosions, slash washouts and protects the new trees planted to replace those selectively logged.

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