New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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Awrrr
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#2612001 27-Nov-2020 18:20

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

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MikeB4

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#2612015 27-Nov-2020 19:06

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

That they are climate change deniers does not matter or alter the reality of what is happening.

Technofreak

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#2612018 27-Nov-2020 19:13

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

I think you're taking a very simplistic approach.

No doubt there are people denying climate change but from what I can see the big debate is around the causes of climate change and the best way of dealing with it. It is a political hot potato.

Let's use New Zealand as an example. One of the problems with climate change is that with current technology serious climate change efforts are going to impact our way of life detrimentally. If New Zealand was to be a world leader and cut carbon emissions to zero and the rest of the world only continued with their current efforts there would be virtually no change to the rate of climate change, assuming the change is purely human driven which is another point of contention. Remember some countries are doing nothing or worse than nothing. The average kiwi is not going to be very happy with the outcome. They will have sacrificed a lot and got nothing in return.

Action on climate change is bit like a Dutch auction. Everyone wants in but they don't want to first or be under bid.

In my opinion it's going to have to get a lot worse before some countries are going to have the incentive to do what they need to do.

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#2612021 27-Nov-2020 19:17

KrazyKid:

I'll agree with all those who say the last few years have been lots of talk and little action.
This could easily be another "all talk" moment.

It seems NZ wants to turn up at a summit for countries high ambition in climate changes in December.
But since we have done almost nothing concrete in the last 10 years about fixing our country we may get excluded.

Yes - it’s just virtue-signalling on an attempt at a grand scale. Will go down well with the teeth-and-ponytail brigade.

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Handle9

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#2612024 27-Nov-2020 19:23

Technofreak:

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

I think you're taking a very simplistic approach.

No doubt there are people denying climate change but from what I can see the big debate is around the causes of climate change and the best way of dealing with it. It is a political hot potato.

Let's use New Zealand as an example. One of the problems with climate change is that with current technology serious climate change efforts are going to impact our way of life detrimentally. If New Zealand was to be a world leader and cut carbon emissions to zero and the rest of the world only continued with their current efforts there would be virtually no change to the rate of climate change, assuming the change is purely human driven which is another point of contention. Remember some countries are doing nothing or worse than nothing. The average kiwi is not going to be very happy with the outcome. They will have sacrificed a lot and got nothing in return.

Action on climate change is bit like a Dutch auction. Everyone wants in but they don't want to first or be under bid.

In my opinion it's going to have to get a lot worse before some countries are going to have the incentive to do what they need to do.

There isn't meaningful debate that a significant cause of climate change is man made. The science is well proven and there is consensus on this among the scientific community. There are vested interests and culture wars types who push a different agenda but the science is pretty clear.

I largely agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post.

eracode

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#2612039 27-Nov-2020 19:59

Technofreak:

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

I think you're taking a very simplistic approach.

No doubt there are people denying climate change but from what I can see the big debate is around the causes of climate change and the best way of dealing with it. It is a political hot potato.

Let's use New Zealand as an example. One of the problems with climate change is that with current technology serious climate change efforts are going to impact our way of life detrimentally. If New Zealand was to be a world leader and cut carbon emissions to zero and the rest of the world only continued with their current efforts there would be virtually no change to the rate of climate change, assuming the change is purely human driven which is another point of contention. Remember some countries are doing nothing or worse than nothing. The average kiwi is not going to be very happy with the outcome. They will have sacrificed a lot and got nothing in return.

Action on climate change is bit like a Dutch auction. Everyone wants in but they don't want to first or be under bid.

In my opinion it's going to have to get a lot worse before some countries are going to have the incentive to do what they need to do.

Spot on. A more eloquent version of what I was saying earlier.

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Rikkitic

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#2612040 27-Nov-2020 20:07

So the argument is we shouldn't do anything because anything we do won't make any difference? Where have I heard that before?

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mattwnz

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#2612041 27-Nov-2020 20:09

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

We have known climate change has been a problem for probably at least 35 years, when the ozone hole was found. WE have known that humans with deforestation and fossil fuels, and increased populations etc is causing these problems. SO why have they waited until now to declare an emergency. Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff again. Suspect it gives a reason to bring in new taxes under emergency rules, such as the fart tax. Taxes on fossil fuel vehicles etc.

Infact NZ is just as bad, if not worse than many countries as a percentage. This is because we have substantially increased our population, possibly more as a percentage than many other countries, and now have so much urban sprawl without infrastructure, and rely on fossil fuels, lots of pollution, bad waterways etc. Also gets the news off the housing crisis, but probably not for long. The young people will hopefully keep it in the news.

Kind of reminds me of NZ doing the nuclear free thing, that got international headlines, and maybe the government thinks this will do the same.

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#2612042 27-Nov-2020 20:14

eracode:
Technofreak: The average kiwi is not going to be very happy with the outcome. They will have sacrificed a lot and got nothing in return.
Spot on. A more eloquent version of what I was saying earlier.

This kind of talk says there is no benefit and it's all cost. That is not the case. An international effort is required and NZ must support and advance that. It's not all about reducing local emissions.

Technofreak

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#2612055 27-Nov-2020 20:34

Rikkitic:

So the argument is we shouldn't do anything because anything we do won't make any difference? Where have I heard that before?

No, I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying to do something meaningful will cause a fair bit of pain for the man (woman) in the street with no gain in sight. Politicians know this is going hurt them very badly at the ballot box. Hence there's plenty of rhetoric but no real serious action.

It's not that we shouldn't do anything it's more a matter that there's really not the political will to do anything.

We were told three years ago that climate change was going to be this generations nuclear free moment or words to that effect. I think we will discover going carbon free isn't in the same league as going nuclear free. We had no dependence on any form of nuclear energy, going nuclear free was a breeze. Our dependence or carbon emission is another story altogether.

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eracode

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#2612056 27-Nov-2020 20:36

gzt:
This kind of talk says there is no benefit and it's all cost. That is not the case. An international effort is required and NZ must support and advance that. It's not all about reducing local emissions.

... except that we are likely going to be required to shoulder a vastly disproportionate share of the cost - financially and socially.

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MikeB4

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#2612059 27-Nov-2020 20:54

eracode:

... except that we are likely going to be required to shoulder a vastly disproportionate share of the cost - financially and socially.

If we do nothing future generations will have to shoulder the full cost and nightmare that we created and handed to them because we were too selfish to wake up and fix the mess we made.

BlinkyBill

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#2612110 28-Nov-2020 07:13

eracode:

gzt:
This kind of talk says there is no benefit and it's all cost. That is not the case. An international effort is required and NZ must support and advance that. It's not all about reducing local emissions.

... except that we are likely going to be required to shoulder a vastly disproportionate share of the cost - financially and socially.

if you want to address your obesity, you have to make substantial lifestyle changes.

Dingbatt

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#2612114 28-Nov-2020 07:30

MikeB4:

Rikkitic:

What amuses me about this thread is that the very people arguing that climate change isn't such a big deal for any number of reasons, are the same people who rightly laugh at 5G conspiracy nuts and anti-vaxxers for their patently silly arguments.

That they are climate change deniers does not matter or alter the reality of what is happening.

A lively discussion and then you had to go and spoil it. Both of you, because of course people can’t have a range of opinions on different topics, the world after all is binary.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#2612116 28-Nov-2020 07:46

@Dingbatt you are right using the term deniers was a bit harsh and I am sorry about that. I was struggling to find a word for folks that give the impression they are struggling to see the urgency of the dire position the planet is in.

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