New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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#2612117 28-Nov-2020 07:52

Dingbatt:

I don’t see a disaster at the moment, I see people who have been terrified by apocryphal predictions that take the uppermost limits of modelling and portray them as a fait accompli, because milder ones don’t sell papers or attract funding. Apocalypse Never.

I dont think anyone says there is a disaster now. You can look at weather patterns, atmospheric moisture, wildfires are standard fare now, warm seas, flash floods in dry seasons, and so on. Its happening now, but in Godzone you wont see local news about it.

There has been climate change here, its happened over millennia. Since the Industrial Revolution PPM has spiked.Since 1980 IIRC its doubled. Doubled in 40 years. One day this thread will be bleating about the heat, the rain, the cold, power cuts, power prices for the aircon use all year, who will sort out my flooded near the shore house? And that the news is mainly about resolving financial problems as most of that is needed to be spent to survive.

gmball

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#2612119 28-Nov-2020 08:03

Oh yay, let’s declare a climate emergency and move our focus towards something our tiny nation can barely impact.
Why not declare a homelessness emergency (seeing as that’s doubled under current government), or perhaps declare a lack of house building emergency (seeing as current government can’t seem to build them or enable others to build them), or the many other emergencies they could declare, rising gang membership emergency, unemployment emergency, government debt off the charts emergency, I could go on and on and on, but I won’t.

And this isn’t a labour vs National vs Act post, it’s simply pointing out that we have some very good talkers leading our nation, but they don’t seem to be very good doers. Less talk, more action please. And more action on what will actually provide benefit to our population.
Trying to combat climate change is great, but let’s first work on getting people into housing, and jobs, and fund the many other areas in dire need such as our failing health system, uninhabitable school classrooms, etc.

tdgeek

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#2612121 28-Nov-2020 08:10

Dingbatt:

I wish people would stop using this expression. The ‘Planet’ will be just fine. It has survived much hotter and colder climates, asteroid strikes, volcanic eruptions, etc. What you are really trying to protect is our current human living conditions.

“Save the cheerleader, save the world.”

You are almost 100% correct

What you are really trying to protect is our current human and wildlife living conditions and the food source for these.

tdgeek

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#2612122 28-Nov-2020 08:12

MikeB4:

Some thoughts I have with regards to action the government and Aotearoa could do....

1. Complete the electrification of the Wellington to Auckland main trunk rail line.

2. Require all goods travelling between main centres to be shipped by rail.

3. Require all goods travelling more than 200k to be shipped by rail where possible.

4. Convert the Government and local Government vehicles to electric as vehicles come up for replacement.

5. Ban the sale of new ICE vehicles by 2030.

6. Require all new build homes to have solar power.

7. Limit tourism and cruise ships.

8. Remove GST from EVs and energy alternatives for housing.

9. Provide interest free loans for the purchase of EVs.

10. Require all forestry development and harvesting to utilise selective logging and ban clear felling.

Excellent. And a scheme to encourage planting. Grass, bushes, trees, anything. This form of nature eats CO2

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#2612124 28-Nov-2020 08:21

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

I don’t see a disaster at the moment, I see people who have been terrified by apocryphal predictions that take the uppermost limits of modelling and portray them as a fait accompli, because milder ones don’t sell papers or attract funding. Apocalypse Never.

I dont think anyone says there is a disaster now.
Please re-read Mike’s posts.

There has been climate change here, its happened over millennia. Since the Industrial Revolution PPM has spiked.Since 1980 IIRC its doubled. Doubled in 40 years.

A basic search will show this simply isn’t the case. Current levels are at approx 410 parts per million (according to NOAA) pre industrial levels were 280ppm. Levels have increased from 330ppm in the 1980s to the current levels which must have an impact.

Levels got as low as 180ppm in the last quaternary glacial period and as high as 4000ppm during the Cambrian period. Interestingly (IMO), 180ppm is touted as the minimum level necessary to support plant life. Maybe you just mis-remembered the figures you quoted.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

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#2612128 28-Nov-2020 08:41

Dingbatt:

There has been climate change here, its happened over millennia. Since the Industrial Revolution PPM has spiked.Since 1980 IIRC its doubled. Doubled in 40 years.

A basic search will show this simply isn’t the case. Current levels are at approx 410 parts per million (according to NOAA) pre industrial levels were 280ppm. Levels have increased from 330ppm in the 1980s to the current levels which must have an impact.

Levels got as low as 180ppm in the last quaternary glacial period and as high as 4000ppm during the Cambrian period. Interestingly (IMO), 180ppm is touted as the minimum level necessary to support plant life. Maybe you just mis-remembered the figures you quoted.

OK, it was something, so found this. Global 1980 to 2018 has about doubled

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co-emissions-by-region?time=earliest..latest

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#2612131 28-Nov-2020 09:04

Yes. Emissions may have doubled in that time.

The world’s population has gone from 4.5 billion to nearly 8 billion in the same time period.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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Rikkitic

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#2612149 28-Nov-2020 09:53

Dingbatt:

A lively discussion and then you had to go and spoil it. Both of you, because of course people can’t have a range of opinions on different topics, the world after all is binary.

I have no problem with a range of opinions, or even opinions I disagree with, as long as they are based on reasoned arguments and not just rigid ideological belief. In this particular case, people seem to be suggesting that there is no point in doing anything, because nothing we do will make a big enough difference. The counter-argument to that is that doing something, however insignificant, is at least starting to move in the right direction and setting an example.

If everyone just sits around waiting for someone else to go first because nothing they do will make a measurable difference, that guarantees that nothing will change. I find that unfortunate.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2612150 28-Nov-2020 10:12

Dingbatt:

Yes. Emissions may have doubled in that time.

The world’s population has gone from 4.5 billion to nearly 8 billion in the same time period.

4.4 to 7.7 so not doubling, and population growth is slowing, so I guess its all sorted. Given pioualtion growth is slowing then I assume emissions growth will be barely visible every year now.....

tdgeek

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#2612153 28-Nov-2020 10:16

Rikkitic:

I have no problem with a range of opinions, or even opinions I disagree with, as long as they are based on reasoned arguments and not just rigid ideological belief. In this particular case, people seem to be suggesting that there is no point in doing anything, because nothing we do will make a big enough difference. The counter-argument to that is that doing something, however insignificant, is at least starting to move in the right direction and setting an example.

If everyone just sits around waiting for someone else to go first because nothing they do will make a measurable difference, that guarantees that nothing will change. I find that unfortunate.

NIMBYism. Full of agreements that there is a problem that we created, but more excuses to forget about it. If the air tempo was incasing at half a degree per year and water levels increasing at half a metre a year, this thread would be 500 pages long, full of everything we can do, big and small to work towards resolving it. We can land on comets but we are unable to create non FF energy and sequester CO2 from the atmosphere

Dingbatt

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#2612165 28-Nov-2020 10:48

tdgeek:

If the air temperature was increasing at half a degree per year and water levels increasing at half a metre a year,...

then the government would quite rightly declare an emergency.

We can land on comets but we are unable to create non FF energy and sequester CO2 from the atmosphere...

Nuclear power?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2612231 28-Nov-2020 13:30

Dingbatt:

tdgeek:

If the air temperature was increasing at half a degree per year and water levels increasing at half a metre a year,...

then the government would quite rightly declare an emergency.

We can land on comets but we are unable to create non FF energy and sequester CO2 from the atmosphere...

Nuclear power?

Yeah, while m house is deteriorating and causing me cost, health, i'll put this off, so later my only cost will be wholesale costly repairs, oh its too late, i'll just find a way to live in a decreasing pile of rottenness?

Nuclear is a good option, we can pop a reactor in the main centres

It seems we are not smart enough to reform our energy use. Yes, there is the political will. But it wont affect any of us that are alive today, nor the financial results of the businesses we own or work for , so its ok.

Geektastic

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#2612402 28-Nov-2020 17:11

gzt:
Geektastic: We did? How did we hand it to ourselves?

Well if you don't believe the scientific conclusion - anthropogenic global warming - there's not much to say really. Except maybe fake news! Fake news! I'm the real president! : )

You’re missing the point.

The claim was we’d be handing something to future generations.

Clearly this problem had its genesis long before those of us currently discussing it were here so we didn’t cause it: someone handed it to us.

Geektastic

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#2612404 28-Nov-2020 17:16

gmball: Oh yay, let’s declare a climate emergency and move our focus towards something our tiny nation can barely impact.
Why not declare a homelessness emergency (seeing as that’s doubled under current government), or perhaps declare a lack of house building emergency (seeing as current government can’t seem to build them or enable others to build them), or the many other emergencies they could declare, rising gang membership emergency, unemployment emergency, government debt off the charts emergency, I could go on and on and on, but I won’t.

And this isn’t a labour vs National vs Act post, it’s simply pointing out that we have some very good talkers leading our nation, but they don’t seem to be very good doers. Less talk, more action please. And more action on what will actually provide benefit to our population.
Trying to combat climate change is great, but let’s first work on getting people into housing, and jobs, and fund the many other areas in dire need such as our failing health system, uninhabitable school classrooms, etc.

It’s less... virtuous to do those things. Not so many good world headlines or credit for future UN sinecures. He said, cynically.

tdgeek

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#2612413 28-Nov-2020 17:43

Geektastic:

You’re missing the point.

The claim was we’d be handing something to future generations.

Clearly this problem had its genesis long before those of us currently discussing it were here so we didn’t cause it: someone handed it to us.

So who will you sue? Modern day humans did it, starting from, as you low, the Industrial Revolution. What country did that start in? Whats your birth place?

All of us use stuff that was brought to us by US, starting from the Industrial Revolution. So we own it

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